Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show

Massacre at Mountain Meadows 

One hundred twenty emigrants passing through southern Utah on their way to California in 1857, at a time when the U.S. Army was on its way to Salt Lake City, unannounced and unexplained by President Buchanan, were massacred by Mormons and Indians, the Mormons taking the lead. Much written on the topic has been marred by bias, agendas and selective use of inadequate sources. Three LDS professional historians, with the input and review of many, LDS and non-LDS, representing a wide range of perspectives, have written what promises to be a masterpiece of historical research and writing.

Ron Walker and Glen Leonard, co-authors of this long awaited book Massacre at Mountain Meadows, were my guests. We discussed their rendition of this event, including new sources and perspectives, resulting from their extensive research on this controversial topic. The third co-author, Rick Turley, Assistant LDS Church Historian, was in Mexico.

Further, the authors spoke of their determination to examine the known sources which pertain to the topic and to seek out previously unknown sources. They explained the position of Church leadership to give them free access to all historical holdings of the Church and that their writing and conclusions would not be supervised nor reviewed by Church authorities. The book is published by Oxford University Press which has a reputation for publishing works which meet a high professional standard. The first printing of 10,000 was sold out before the official release, the second printing will not supply the current demand and a third printing is already planned.

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An Encounter with Exmormon.org

I discussed my rather extensive exchanges last month with participants on this popular anti-Mormon website. I made every effort to follow their rules which allow anonymity, do not allow defense of Mormonism and require posts to be respectful. I confined all of my comments to historical sources pertaining to the wording and intent of a sentence included in the endowment ceremony from 1845 to 1927.   I was denied anonymity and falsely accused of defending the LDS Church. The sources I provided on this point of history, which has nothing to do with basic Mormon claims, were completely ignored, and after being attacked with a steady barrage of insults and disrespect, my hands were tied (namely, I was refused access), and this mob proceeded with their assassination.My point, which I stated and re-stated many times, is that there is a substantial body of 19th century sources, Mormon and ex-Mormon, which say that the endowment included instruction for the participants to pray for God to avenge the blood of the prophets, and also a prayer to that effect.

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Personal Statement:

Response to an ExMormon Critic

A long time listener sent me a scathing email which he has published on the internet on exmormon.org, a rabidly anti-Mormon board, where I am refused participation. He claimed that I am a “puppet” and apologist for the LDS Church. I responded to his false charge by reviewing the 27 year policy of my talk show with comments on the involvement of LDS leaders in its content. Also, I listed and commented on some of my personal views, including those where I diverge from the Mormon mainstream. This is my candid effort to explain where I believe I fit in Mormonism, specifically expressing my attitude toward the Church.

I read this email and also my written response. The author of the email called in and we discussed and disagreed on a number of his points. We discussed:

My insistence that I defend my views, not the Church Oath of vengeance Blood oaths Mountain Meadows massacre John D. Lee’s denial that Brigham Young ordered the MMM Hoffman’s forged letter of Jonathan Dunham

Other callers:

This caller read some of the posts then being added to the exmormon.org about this discussion with the author of the email.

Steve Benson and Ezra Taft Benson.

Resolving religious issues through physical confrontation.

Comment on the claim of religious leader, Warren Jeffs.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 30 September 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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John D. Lee Scroll, Another Forgery?

Steve Mayfield joined me to discuss our recent expedition to Page, Arizona with forensic document expert, George Throckmorton to examine a lead scroll  found in January of 2002 in a small 2 room fort built at Lee’s Ferry (named after John D. Lee) on the Colorado River in 1874. The scroll purports to be written by John D. Lee, 11 January 1872, in which he states that Brigham Young gave orders for the Mountain Meadows Massacre which were delivered by Apostle George A. Smith.

We spent the day with the National Parks Ranger, Allen Malmquist, who found the scroll. It is now housed in the National Parks vault/archives at Page. We examined the scroll and other items in the archives for about two hours, and Throckmorton collected some small samples from the scroll to be tested at a chemical labratory.   We travelled with him to a number of sites including the Fort and Signature Rock, which has more than 200 signatures of 19th century travellers, including that of John D. Lee, 25 December 1871.

Malmquist discussed with us, in great detail, the history of the area, especially John D. Lee’s involvement, the history of the fort, the ferry, Lee’s Lonely Dell Ranch and many other topics. 

We traveled with Malmquist to the building at Lee’s ferry where the scroll was found. He explained, in precise detail, the circumstances of his finding of the scroll and its history to the present.

On this talk show we discussed further investigation of this lead scroll. There are many reasons, physical, historical, provenance, contextual and handwriting, to suspect the scroll is a forgery.

Comments and Questions from Callers and Email:

Prophets are not infallible.

Wide latitude of Divinely approved acts of the prophets found in the Bible.

How was the scroll found?

Charles W. Penrose was the author of the Wilford Woodruff Manifesto of 1890.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 23 September 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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