Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show

Was Joseph Smith a Prophet?

My guest was Martin Tanner. We discussed his debate with Jason Wallace, a pastor who subscribes to the brand of Christianity of John Calvin.

Pastor Wallace was arguing that Joseph Smith was not a prophet, presenting his interpretations of some Biblical passages in support.

Martin Tanner, who is a believing LDS, responded.

Callers participated in our discussion.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 20 January 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

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I considered this question from notes I prepared two years ago for a formal debate on the topic with a Calvinist minister. My approach is more as a discussion than a debate due to the fact that four issues must be resolved before we could properly debate the question, “Is the God of Mormonism the God of the Bible?” They are:

1. Which Bible?

2. What is the Biblical concept of Deity?

3. What is the Mormon concept of Deity?

4. Are we referring to the identity of God or to divergent views of God’s attributes and actions?

Callers and Email:

1. The reasoning behind non-LDS Christian arguments that Mormons are not Christians; divergent concepts of salvation.

2. A caller and I disagreed on two main points: That the belief that Jesus and Satan are brothers demeans Jesus; and that the belief that Jesus created Satan out of nothing, flawed such that Jesus knew Satan would fall and become the author of evil, makes Jesus the creator, or the one responsible for all evil. Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 11 November 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

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To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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The Romneys; Mormon Splinter Groups

My guest is Newell Bringhurst past president of the Mormon History Association, the John Whitmer Historical Association and author of many works on diverse areas of Mormon history.Bringhurst has written a paper comparing the Presidential campaigns of George Romney (1968) and his son Mitt Romney (2008).Mitt has considered some of the problems and mistakes of his father. George Romney was the front-runner for a time as the Republican candidate. 

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 5 August 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

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Sunstone: Interview with Dan Wotherspoon

My guest was Dan Wotherspoon, executive director and editor of Sunstone Magazine, with a doctorate in theology and philosopy of religion. We discussed the upcoming Sunstone Symposium, including some of the 95 sessions, the mission and future of Sunstone and a number of topics raised by callers.

Changes in Sunstone announced with John Dehlin as the new executive director, taking over fundraising and the website.

28th Salt Lake Symposium 8-11 August 2007 - Some sessions

Mountain Meadows Massacre and the Oath of Vengeance Mitt Romney papers and panel discussion Mormon splinter groups Grant McMurray former prophet/president of the Community of Christ Church (formerly the RLDS Church) Helen Whitney, producer of the PBS documentary “The Mormons” is presenting at a special session Sunstone Mission: Open Forum of Thought,  “Faith Seeking Understanding.”

Sunstone finances.

Audio files of the 2007 Symposium will be available in mp3 format on sunstoneonline.com within about 2 weeks after the Symposium.

Comments on the future impressive additions and development of the website.

Multiple sides of Mormon issues are welcomed at Sunstone.

Topics Raised by Callers:

Mitt Romney’s candidacy What is Dialogue Journal Joseph Smith translation of the Bible King James Translations and other versions What is the Official Church position on Sunstone? What about those born into bad circumstances? The tribe of Judah Is there policy against BYU professors participating at Sunstone? Vision of the redemption of the dead D&C 138:50-51 on resurrection. A criticism that those at Sunstone prefer the past prophets and authorities over the current Prophet.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 29 July 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

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 The Alleged Oath of Vengeance Beginning in 1847 the allegation was made that the Saints were required in the endowment ceremony in the Nauvoo Temple to take an oath to “use our influence to murder this nation” to avenge “for their killing the Prophet Joseph.”A number of ex-Mormons wrote addition anti-Mormon exposes making similar claims regarding the ceremony performed in the Endowment House in Salt Lake City from 1855-1889. In sworn testimony in hearings in 1889, 1904-1906 a number of Mormons testified that no such Oath existed.They were joined by several ex-Mormons who also denied its existence. Other ex-Mormons testified that it was included in the endowment ceremony.

Perhaps, for a number of reasons, the one most qualified to speak on the matter was Wilford Woodruff. As President of the Church in 1889 he gave an explanation that “avenging” and “prophets” were mentioned in the endowment ceremony in an instruction given to the Saints to pray for God to avenge the murder of prophets and saints. He stated that this was included in the endowment ceremony by Joseph Smith in 1842 based upon Revelation 6:9-10 and this had not been changed. He maintained that Joseph and Hyrum were not mentioned in the ceremony nor was the American Nation considered responsible for the deaths of Joseph and Hyrum and, therefore, was not specifically identified as the object of vengeance.

From his explanation it would follow that those claiming the existence of an Oath of Vengeance for the Mormons to resort to murder to avenge the deaths of Joseph and Hyrum upon the American Nation was an extreme twisting of the endowment ceremony.

Recently, several authors and historians have claimed that this alleged Oath of Vengeance played a major role in the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

I discuss this topic presenting some of my research for a paper 20 years ago. I plan to make available some of my sources and reasoning in an article to be available in my eStore this coming week.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 1 July 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “comment” below.

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Bits and Pieces

I presented follow-up comments on several recent episodes:

Am I a Darwinist as frequently alleged by a caller, Art Bulla, who claims to be the Lord’s Anointed, the One Mighty and Strong?

A caller on 17 June made absurd allegations about the origin of the text of the Book of Abraham. I asked for his sources. He gave two. I reported on my findings after checking out his claimed sources.

I made a follow-up comment on two recent episodes covering Joseph Smith’s accounts of the First Vision.

I mentioned a very good brief summary article on Mountain Meadows Massacre by noted historian, Rick Turley, to appear in the Church’s September issue of the Ensign. The Church has pre-released this article and has posted it on its website, http://lds.org/. I highly recommend it.

I commented briefly on the alleged Oath of Vengeance. It has been claimed by several recent authors that a primary motive for the Mountain Meadows Massacre was to fulfill an oath taken by Mormons in the temple endowment ceremony to avenge the blood of Joseph and Hyrum through acts of murder. I did not present the material I had prepared for this episode, but have decided to dedicate a program in the next several weeks to this topic.

Callers frequently ask or comment on my views regarding the Book of Mormon historicity issue. I read a brief summary of my view.

Several callers participated. One, Art Bulla, called in making a false allegation about my procedure. As I tried to respond, he refused to allow it by interrupting and over-talking me with a name-calling attack and a challenge to a fist fight. I assume all this display is intended to demonstrate that he is the Lord’s Annointed - the One Mighty and Strong.   Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDSOfficial website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ 

Talk Show Blog: www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 24 June 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world.

Check the right Sidebar for a Catalog of related Articles now available

To make a comment, click on the “Comment” button below

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First Vision Accounts

In this talk show I discuss the early accounts of Joseph Smith’s First Vision - those recorded during his lifetime, 1830 to 1844. One was written by Joseph Smith in 1832, two others were dictated by him in 1835 and 1838, and another was written by him for publication in 1842. The other six are second hand accounts. Five of the accounts had not been published until after 1969.

I am specifically interested in the allegation that an examination of these accounts demonstrates that Joseph Smith fabricated the First Vision and changed it to fit new circumstances and his developing views about God. I approach the topic by resorting to common sense and comparing some variations in the several accounts. I discuss the publication history of several of the accounts and the remarkable fact that it seems Joseph Smith was reluctant to publish an account of his First Vision until 1842. I responded to several callers and email on the topic, and to one caller, who would not affirm or deny that he is an American, but who startlingly encourages that Mormons be wiped of the earth by any means possible.

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