Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show

107.Author of The Mormon People: The Making of an American Faith

Matthew Bowman is the author The Mormon People: The Making of an American Faith. I began talking to him on the second hour. We talked about a number of developments from 1830 until now. I highly recommend this book for Mormons and non-Mormons.

During the first hour, I had:

• a conversation with an ex-Mormon about his new view about Joseph Smith on plural marriage, and;
• a conversation with an ex-Mormon who claims to be Jesus' prophet. We debated his claim that President Grant decided to replace the D&C with a digest version so LDS would not know about a number of doctrines.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Podcast address: http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show is now in its 32th year.

TO PARTICIPATE:

• Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST
• To listen to Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com
• By email, write to: vanehale@yahoo.com
• If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

To make a comment here, click on “Comment” below

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[89]

My wife, Catherine, and long time associate, Steve Mayfield, joined me to discuss the 29 years of weekly talk shows. We discussed the origin and history of the program; some of the guests and topics and some of the myths fabricated about me and the program.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website:http://mormonmiscellaneous.com

Podcast address: http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/This is the 7 June 2009 episode of the

Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show

, now in its 30th year.

To participate live by phone dial: 801-254-5855

Or, to participate by email, write to: van.hale@k-talk.com

To make a comment, click on "Comment" below

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

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Doctrine and Covenants #2

I present an overview of the history of the D&C from 1828 to 1981 dicussing some additions, deletions, modifications, historical situations and doctrinal points.

I have a selection of notecards from my notecard collection I will be reading. It is Notecard Selection #7. I will email it to those who email me their request to van.hale@k-talk.com.

Topics raised by callers include:

Contents of the Book of Commandments Did Joseph Smith have children by any of his plural wives? Did not Heber J. Grant attempt to shorten the D&C substantially? Question on my view on Plural Marriage. The Kirtland Revelations Book.

 Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com

Podcast address: http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/

This is the 18 January 2009 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year. 

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

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Hard Evidence and Religious Conviction

A brand of Islam and racism

Who is saved

Belief in the Bible and Book of Mormon is not to be based on proof

Blacks and Mormonism

Financing the Book of Mormon

How do you prove something in scripture is true

Is there hard evidence of the resurrection of Jesus

Polygamy

Faith is not to be based on archaeology

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

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Polygamy: Joseph Smith's Letter of Explanation

A letter of Joseph Smith on polygamy is well-known to many LDS as an article on Happiness. It was written such that its meaning would be hidden to those who do not know its historical context.

Its history includes a stir among LDS in Nauvoo in 1842, significant confrontations, exchanges in the newspapers, denials, defections and information on the early, private promulgation of polygamy.

Its content gives important insight into Joseph Smith's views and even includes a revelation. Further, it is an excellent example of a literary form which clearly teaches an impressive message on the surface, but then buried beneath the surface is a deeper message comparable to occasions when Jesus taught something seemingly simple but then invited his disciples to think deeper with the phrase "he that hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Those interested in a copy of the Joseph Smith letter discussed which I have placed in a parallel column with D&C 132 send your request to van.hale@k-talk.com and I will send it to you by email.

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LDS / non-LDS Exchange

Don Ormsby, a guest host on the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, talks with Randy Loeppky a non-LDS Christian an active advocate that Mormon claims are false and Mormons are not Christian. 

Discussion of whether or not the Church officers named in the New Testament should be continued in the Christian Church today.

 Participants asked about Sunday restrictions, who will be saved?, the Nicene Creed and early views of the possibility of man's deification; revelation, why accept the Bible as the exclusive standard.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com

Podcast address: http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/

This is the 31 August 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

To make a comment, click on "Comment" below

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Polygamy & the Utah Attorney General

What follows is a very interesting discussion I had a couple of years ago on the topic of modern polygamy in Utah with my guest was Mark Shurtleff, the Utah State Attorney General.

Unfortunately, the digital recording failed and this comes from a rather poor tape recording made by one of my listeners.

But, because of the topic's timeliness, I am posting this episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show to my podcast site. A.G. Shurtleff gives considerable information and insight into events which currently are widely discussed daily in the national news media regarding the recent raid by Texas law inforcement agents of the polygamous community known as the FLDS, or the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

More than 400 children were taken from their homes and families and placed in State custody. What will be their future and how Texas, Utah and other states will deal with polygamy and other forms of non-traditional illegal sexual relationships has captured the interest of Americans.

Attorney General Mark Shurtleff and I were joined by callers in the discussion of:

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God and Omniscience

A number of topics were raised and discussed in this episode:

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Defining Mormon Concepts of Deity

In this episode I compare and contrast Mormon concepts of Deity with those terms used in the historic Christian debate to identify some of the many views argued during the past 1800 years. I define and discuss, as related to Mormon views, such terms as: trinitarian, unitarian, binitarian, monotheism, polytheism, tritheism, henotheism, modalism, monarchianism, homoousian, homoiousion.

My interest in the history, evolution and debate of these ideas has lead to my attempt to define the Mormon concepts of Deity.  Due to the fact that there have been developments of doctrinal concepts from 1829 to the present, in this episode, I focus on the first period, 1829 to 1844, the ministry of Joseph Smith.

Callers:

What is monarchianism?

What about Brian Hale's comment that polygamy was a commandment from 1852-c.1890 after which, for some 14 years, it was an option rather than a command, before it was discontinued entirely. What was the second manifesto of 1904?

This caller falsely claimed that I am a Darwinist and thus cannot believe in God. I have denied his allegations several times previously. He proclaimed his belief that Adam is God.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 28 October 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Mormon Fundamentalism

My guest was Brian C. Hales, author of Modern Polygamy and Mormon Fundamentalism. We discussed this timely, diverse and little known topic. The question is often asked, Who are Mormon fundamentalists and what do they believe. The answer is far more complex than most would think. Hales has brought together a significant body of material to address this question. Many personalities and events have lead to the great diversity which exists among the many factions included by this broad term, "Mormon fundamentalism." We discussed many points of interest and importance in understanding the history and beliefs of this category within the Mormon tradition.

The beginnings of the Mormon fundamentalist movement.

Is "fundamentalist" an appropriate term for the, so-called Mormon fundamentalists?

The 1890 Woodruff Manifesto

Authority issue, if one man holds the keys, as taught by Joseph Smith, who now holds those keys?

Lorin Wooley claimed that a priesthood organization exists outside of the LDS Church with superior authority.

Authorship of the Manifesto.

Interpretations of the Manifesto: was it a revelation, the result of a revelation or a trick by Wilford Woodruff to deceive the U.S. Government.

Issue of cohabitation after the 1890 Manifesto.

Problems with the claims that the keys had been passed to Lorin Wooley and others in an 1886.

Callers and Email:

Art Bulla called to declare his claim that he is the only one who can authorize plural marriages; that he is the one mighty and strong and the Lord's anointed and those who do not accept this will be damned. He claimed that he was called to be an apostle in a stake meeting in North Carolina in 1976. He claimed that no LDS President since Wilford Woodruff has been the Lord's anointed; that the keys were somewhere out in the wilderness from 1890 to 1978; and that he (Art) appointed someone to give him the keys and the Lord's anointing.

Splintering among the fundamentalist groups due to divergent claims of authority.

There are many independent fundamentalists who do not belong to any of the several fundamentalist groups. They make many divergent claims.

A disciple of Art Bulla called to support him. He claimed that the LDS Church fell into apostasy in 1978, but would not confirm nor deny whether David O. McKay was a true prophet, the Lord's anointed, holding the highest priesthood keys.

A caller asked why anyone would be interested in all of this history of polygamy.

A caller asked questions regarding the united order and law of consecration. Brian Hales' sister, a former fundamentalist, sent an email briefly mentioning her experience and point of view.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 14 October 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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John D. Lee Scroll, Another Forgery?

Steve Mayfield joined me to discuss our recent expedition to Page, Arizona with forensic document expert, George Throckmorton to examine a lead scroll  found in January of 2002 in a small 2 room fort built at Lee's Ferry (named after John D. Lee) on the Colorado River in 1874. The scroll purports to be written by John D. Lee, 11 January 1872, in which he states that Brigham Young gave orders for the Mountain Meadows Massacre which were delivered by Apostle George A. Smith.

We spent the day with the National Parks Ranger, Allen Malmquist, who found the scroll. It is now housed in the National Parks vault/archives at Page. We examined the scroll and other items in the archives for about two hours, and Throckmorton collected some small samples from the scroll to be tested at a chemical labratory.   We travelled with him to a number of sites including the Fort and Signature Rock, which has more than 200 signatures of 19th century travellers, including that of John D. Lee, 25 December 1871.

Malmquist discussed with us, in great detail, the history of the area, especially John D. Lee's involvement, the history of the fort, the ferry, Lee's Lonely Dell Ranch and many other topics. 

We traveled with Malmquist to the building at Lee's ferry where the scroll was found. He explained, in precise detail, the circumstances of his finding of the scroll and its history to the present.

On this talk show we discussed further investigation of this lead scroll. There are many reasons, physical, historical, provenance, contextual and handwriting, to suspect the scroll is a forgery.

Comments and Questions from Callers and Email:

Prophets are not infallible.

Wide latitude of Divinely approved acts of the prophets found in the Bible.

How was the scroll found?

Charles W. Penrose was the author of the Wilford Woodruff Manifesto of 1890.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 23 September 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Research Notes

I have a large collection of miscellaneous quotations, sources, references and notes which I have collected on a variety of subjects while involved in specific research projects. From time to time, I bring some of these to my talk show. In this one I presented the following six:

1. An allegation that Mormons murdered Lilburn Boggs, ex-Governor of Missouri, while he was on his way to California.

2. Peter H. Burnett, who was one of Joseph Smith's attorneys and the first governor of California, wrote his impression of Joseph Smith.

3. John Taylor on truth and science. He taught that an appropriate pursuit of truth by Mormons is to set aside preconceived notions and bias and to search for truth from all possible sources, including the sciences.

4. Orson Pratt's 1846 sermon, found in a journal entry of Norton Jacob, comments on the dating of creation.

5. Brigham Young speaks of his and Joseph Smith's views on the resurrection as matters of individual belief. He endorsed individual speculation and belief, but not the assertion that this is the belief of the Church.

6. 21 January 1861 Wilford Woodruff's synopsis of  Brigham Young's sermon in which he speculates on the stature, in the resurrection, of those who died in infancy.

Callers and email:

All Mormons are liars, arrogant and do not believe in the Constitution and should not be protected by the first amendment.

Follow up from my discussion with Blake Ostler. Is there an ultimate head God, or is there an infinite order of Gods one above another?

Email from an evangelical Christian denouncing me and Mormonism.

Through the power of God, did the sun stand still for Joshua to allow him time to complete his attack?

Speculation regarding details of the resurrection.

Manifesto, revelation to John Taylor, revelation extending priesthood to the blacks, one mighty and strong.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 9 September 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Two Month Nauvoo Temple Operation 

I cover some of the events, ordinances, sermons, and happenings in the Nauvoo Temple during its short term of operation from 11 December 1845 to 8 February 1846. A major source for my comments is the valuable book: The Nauvoo Endowment Companies, edited by Gary Bergera and Devery Anderson, compiled primarily from Nauvoo Temple records and diaries. I discuss:

Laying of the cornerstones of the Temple

Extensive detailed records

The ordinances - baptism for the dead, washings, anointings, washing and anointing for health, washing of feet, endowments, second anointing, marriage, sealings (living, dead, children), adoptions, ordinations (elder, seventy, high priest), prayer circles

Types of marriages/sealings performed in the temple - for time and eternity; for time; for eternity; monogamous for time-plural for eternity; plural for time-monogamous for eternity; plural for time and eternity; non-sexual for time

Wedding ceremonies, celebration and recreation in the temple

Dancing in the temple unto the Lord - Brigham Young's explanation and defense

Music in the temple

Secrecy directives

Prominent themes of the temple prayers

Actors in the Endowment drama

First Temple expose

Topics Raised by Callers and Email

A strong condemnation of my motives and my response.

Priesthood is outside of the Church.

Is the Book of Mormon fact or fiction?

Three Book of Mormon doctrines which are wrong.

The Church fell into apostasy in 1978 in giving the Blacks the priesthood, and a former 70 now is the Lord's Anointed.

The fact that Pres. Kimball received a revelation to extend the priesthood to the Blacks means there must have been a revelation to withhold the priesthood from the Blacks.  

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 19 August 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

Listen Now:

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Polygamy Discussion with Author, Carmon Hardy My guest was B. Carmon Hardy, author of Doing the Works of Abraham: Mormon Polygamy, Its origin, practice, and demise. His book is a collection of important documents on polygamy throughout its history in 19th century Mormonism. Hardy includes his comments and footnotes throughout. It is an excellent work which I highly recommend.

We discussed a number of the controversial issues regarding the Mormon practice of polygamy in the 19th century, including:

the origin;

Book of Mormon references;

why there is almost no evidence that Joseph Smith had children by any wife but Emma;

why some women who were already married were sealed to Joseph Smith;

the 1879 Supreme Court ruling;

early denials of the practice;

the 1852 public announcement of the practice and subsequent defense of the principle, etc.

A number of listeners participated by phone and email.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 22 July 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

Listen Now:

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Mormon History with Mormon History Association President

My guests were Ron Esplin and Larry King. Ron is the current president of the Mormon History Association and also the Managing Editor of the Joseph Smith Papers Project. He is also an expert on the life of Brigham Young.Larry King is Managing Director of the MHA. The MHA holds a conference each year where some 100 participants, experts in various aspects of Mormon history, present the results of their research. Also, the MHA publishes the Journal of Mormon History, a collection of scholary papers.

The Joseph Smith Papers Project consists of about 60 researchers, scholars and volunteers who are working to publish some 30 volumes of the papers by, and related to, Joseph Smith. They are following the strictest of professional standards. The following are among the topics discussed.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS     Official website: www.mormonmiscellaneous.com

This is the 13 May 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year.To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to www.k-talk.com Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world.  

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Polygamy: Some Statistics and Some Speculations

Because of the inherent difficulties in drawing conclusions from certain types of sources, answers which have been given for some significant questions on early Mormon polygamy are based more on speculation than on demonstrable fact.

I discuss the treacherous nature of newspapers and testimony, especially reminiscences. Several well-known factors are responsible:

As we have all experienced, two eyewitnesses often differ in the details of an event.

Precise memory is fleeting with the passage of time.

On sensitive or controversial topics all are affected by their bias.

Some are blinded such by their bias that they filter out all facts which do not fit. They thus, intentionally or unintentionally, relate what they wish had happened rather than what actually happened.

I raise five questions regarding Joseph Smith, which many insist they can answer with certainty. I point out that the slim and ambiguous nature of the historical sources from Joseph Smith and his plural wives renders responsible students incapable of answering these questions without resorting to various degrees of speculation.  

Podcast address: www.mormonmisc.podbean.com       

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