Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show

Polygamy & the Utah Attorney General

What follows is a very interesting discussion I had a couple of years ago on the topic of modern polygamy in Utah with my guest was Mark Shurtleff, the Utah State Attorney General.

Unfortunately, the digital recording failed and this comes from a rather poor tape recording made by one of my listeners.

But, because of the topic’s timeliness, I am posting this episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show to my podcast site. A.G. Shurtleff gives considerable information and insight into events which currently are widely discussed daily in the national news media regarding the recent raid by Texas law inforcement agents of the polygamous community known as the FLDS, or the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

More than 400 children were taken from their homes and families and placed in State custody. What will be their future and how Texas, Utah and other states will deal with polygamy and other forms of non-traditional illegal sexual relationships has captured the interest of Americans.

Attorney General Mark Shurtleff and I were joined by callers in the discussion of:

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God and Omniscience

A number of topics were raised and discussed in this episode:

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God’s Omniscience:

Diversity of Mormon Views

In this episode I discuss several differing views of LDS leaders, including Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, Wilford Woodruff, B. H. Roberts, Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie on the topic of God’s omniscience.

Joseph Smith and Brigham Young emphatically declared that the most spiritually advanced in this life will know but little of even the basics of the plan of salvation at the time of their death. From this perspective, they established an LDS position which persists - that we have no carefully worded creed which a person must accept to be LDS. Both of them advocated searching, pondering and speculating upon concepts, even mysteries. This, of course, resulted in a religious climate among the Saints where there would naturally be a diversity of views on even some basic topics, even regarding God and the Godhead.

I discuss the differences between Orson Pratt and Brigham Young on the whether God, or the Gods, progress in knowledge. Their differences resulted in published statements of the First presidency, and the First Presidency and the Twelve, to the Saints and comments in sermons by several General Authorities in the 1860s.   More recently, Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie, in the 1950s and 1960s expressed their views on the subject.

Email Participants (the phone system went down and thus there were no phone participants)

1. Mormons are so busy chasing after other Gods that they cannot know the one God of the Bible. I comment on this position.
2. A long email from a frequent participant denounces pursuit of our religious belief through research and study. He claims that we must turn to him; that he will tell us the truths we need to know; and that we are to pray to God, not for further knowledge, but rather, only for confirmation what this self-proclaimed prophet has declared. In my response I wandered off on to the question of, Who is Jehovah in Mormon belief in the 19th century in contrast to belief in the 20th century?
3. Another email further argues that Mormons do not believe in the God of the Bible and cannot, therefore, be Christians. The God of the Bible is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. I, of course, respond.  

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 9 December 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Development of Mormon Thought

on the Holy Ghost

I trace the development of Mormon thought, from 1829 to the present, on the Holy Ghost. I pursue such questions as:

Is the Holy Ghost a personage?

What is the future of the Holy Ghost?

Was Joseph Smith the Holy Ghost?

Why did the current LDS view of the Holy Ghost take so long to develop?

Regarding the Holy Ghost, I discuss the Book of Mormon and other early sources, specifically Lecture Five in a series of lectures given in 1834, and Joseph Smith’s teachings during the last four years of his life in Nauvoo.

Participants by Phone and Email

1. I read and responded to an email which asserts that the Bible teaches there is one God expressed in three persons. I read several Biblical passages which draw a clear distinction between God and Jesus and others which refer to the existence of a number of gods.
2. A caller addressed himself to this topic and we further discussed the question of the deity of Jesus as related to the New Testament.
3. A caller contributed several views regarding the spirit of man and the workings of the Holy Ghost.
4. Further discussion with a caller regarding the early LDS views (1830s) of the Father as a spirit in contrast to Joseph Smith’s teaching in Nauvoo (1841-1844) that the Father has resurrected body of flesh and bones like that of Jesus.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 2 December 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Development of Joseph Smith’s

Concept of God

Joseph Smith acknowledged that his views were progressive - that is, his views of God differed on a number of points from 1829 to 1844. From a number of sources I have developed the following approximate timeline for the development of Joseph Smith’s views of God.

1. Jesus is God. 1829-1844
2. Jesus pre-existed as the Son. 1829-1844
3. In some way Jesus is the Son and also the Father. 1829-1833
4. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one. 1829-1844
5. The Father is a personage of spirit 1829-1835 or 1834-1835
6. The Holy Ghost is not a personage, but rather the mind of the Father and the Son. 1834-1841
7. The Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit awaiting the opportunity to take upon himself a body of flesh and bones. 1841-1844
8. The Saints have the potential to become gods and goddesses. 1832-1844
9. Our God and Father has a God and Father. 1841-1844
10. The Father went through mortality and has a resurrected body of flesh and bones like that of Jesus. 1841-1844
11. There is an Eternal God of all other Gods. 1838-1841
12. There is one God above another with no end. 1841-1844
13. There was a grand council of Gods to plan and create this world. 1839-1844

I discussed the four main points of the King Follett discourse of 7 April 1844.  

Participation by Phone and Email

1. I respond to an email condemning Brigham Young and his view of Adam as God. Did he believe in a different God than the God of the Bible?
2. Why are there two different trinities in LDS thought: Elohim, Jehovah and the Holy Ghost; and, Elohim, Jehovah and Michael?
3. Comments on Brigham Young’s position that there would be differences on God if saints ancient and modern where gathered together.
4. Does not the Book of Mormon present the idea that God could cease to be God?
5. A caller condemns me for not accepting his views about Brigham Young’s teachings regarding Adam. I explain my preference for Joseph Smith’s view over that of Brigham Young on this point.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 25 November 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

Listen Now:

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Brigham Young’s Belief that Adam is God

On this talk show I answer a number of questions regarding Brigham Young’s unique beliefs regarding Adam. This has been a controversial topic for more than 100 years. Answers the following questions are included:

1. What did Brigham Young believe?
2. To what extent did he teach his views?
3. Did he consider his authoritative; that is, official Mormon doctrine?
4. Does his role as president and prophet demand that his views be accepted by LDS?
5. Did his contemporaries in the Church hierarchy accept his views?
6. Did his views on Adam differ from those of Joseph Smith?

Callers and Email

• Joseph Smith’s view that spirits are eternal and Brigham Young’s view that spirits begin to exist through a spirit birth.
• A caller spoke in defense of his view that Adam is God citing some passages and arguments.
• Change of one word in the introduction of the Book of Mormon.    

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: