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91. Joseph Smith Papers: Two Revelations Manuscripts

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts, Doctrine & Covenants by mormonmisc on November 19th, 2009

91. Joseph Smith Papers: Two Revelations Manuscripts

These two manuscript revelations were written in the 1830s, and now published in 2009. These two include a number Joseph Smith’s revelations from 1829 to 1835. One of the manuscript was recently found. The other manuscript has been known for many years.

The authors of this book are: Robin Jensen, Bob Woodford and Steve Harper. They discuss many topics and questions with the host, Van Hale. New information provides some old unanswered questions. Yet, other questions still beg for further research and insight. Many Latter-day Saints and their historians are anxious too understand details of their history.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

 

Official website:http://mormonmiscellaneous.com

 

Podcast address: http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/This is the 01 November 2009 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show now in its 30th year.

To participate live by phone dial: 801-254-5855.

Or, to participate by email, write to: van.hale@earthlink.net.

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

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Nauvoo High Council Minutes

The Nauvoo High Council Minutes

The Nauvoo High Council minutes are preserved in the LDS Archives. The nature and authority of this body can be outlined by the issues it considered and the actions taken. Attitudes of the council on marriage, divorce, remarriage, plural marriage, sexual immorality, disputes among members, spiritual claims and doctrinal teachings, disfellowshipment, excommunication and reinstatement, and the attitude and requests of Joseph Smith are among the many entries in this valuable record which I will discuss.

Belief, skepticism and proofs.

More on allegations of Temple blood oaths.

 

 

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website:

http://mormonmiscellaneous.com

Podcast address: http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/This is the 26 April 2009 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year.

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

 

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Early Publications of the Revelations

Posted in Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts, Doctrine & Covenants by mormonmisc on May 8th, 2009

 Early Publications of the Revelations

 My guest was Curt Bench. He is the proprietor of Benchmark Books in Salt Lake City and an expert on the wide range of publications on Mormonism over the past 179 years. Curt is a veteran dealer in publications old and new, rare and common. 

 

Smith-Pettit Foundation has just published The Parallel Doctrine and Covenants: The 1832-1833, 1833, and 1835 Editions of Joseph Smith’s Revelations. Curt authored the introduction. We discussed the history of the publication of Joseph Smith’s revelations up to 1835. Among the several early printings of the revelations there are many textual variations for a variety of reasons. The variants can be easily followed with this new important contribution to the study of early Mormonism. We discussed several and also views of the nature of Joseph Smith’s concept of revelation which would account for the changes made in the revelations.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

 

 

Official website: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com

Podcast address: http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/This is the 3 May 2009 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year.

To make a comment, click on “Comment” belowTo listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

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More on the Temple Ceremony

More on the Temple Ceremony

I continue a discussion of alleged elements of the temple ceremony which I began last week. I present and discuss sources regarding the numerous allegations that in the 19th century Mormons, by oath, committed themselves to murder Americans and to seek the destruction of the Nation. I do this in response to a post

Other topics raised by participants include the question of the frequency and recording of revelations; the policies regarding the establishment of authority; a debate on the Biblical infallibility; Mormons saving the Constitution.

 

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website:

http://mormonmiscellaneous.com

Podcast address: http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/This is the 29 March 2009 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year.

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

 

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Doctrine and Covenants #2

Doctrine and Covenants #2

I present an overview of the history of the D&C from 1828 to 1981 dicussing some additions, deletions, modifications, historical situations and doctrinal points.

I have a selection of notecards from my notecard collection I will be reading. It is Notecard Selection #7. I will email it to those who email me their request to van.hale@k-talk.com.

Topics raised by callers include:

Contents of the Book of Commandments Did Joseph Smith have children by any of his plural wives? Did not Heber J. Grant attempt to shorten the D&C substantially? Question on my view on Plural Marriage. The Kirtland Revelations Book.

 Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

 

Official website: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com

Podcast address: http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/

This is the 18 January 2009 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year. 

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

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An Original Apostle’s Notebook is Discovered

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts, Book of Mormon by mormonmisc on February 21st, 2009

WEM-Notebook.jpg 

My guest was Brent Ashworth, a well-known and long-time collector of Mormon documents. He recently discovered an 1871 notebook of William E. McLellin who was an LDS convert in 1831, who served in several callings in the Church, including his membership in the first Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in 1835. Several factors lead to his excommunication in 1838.

He participated briefly in a splinter group before Joseph Smith’s murder and organized his own group after. A number of his personal writings have been discovered - his early diaries and several notebooks. This notebook presents his views and reminiscences on a number of topics and his enduring conviction that Joseph Smith had been a prophet and that the Book of Mormon is of Divine origin.

Ashworth and I discussed the notebook in some detail and he read a number of selections from it.

We also discussed some of Ashworth’s other purchases including some of the forged documents of the infamous Mark Hoffman.

Several participated questions by phone and email.

(The photo above is Brent Ashworth with the notebook. The photo below is the notebook opened to page 14-15)

 

 

WEM-NotebookOpen.jpg

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com

Podcast address: http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/
This is the 8 February 2009 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year. 

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

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D&C Facts and History #1

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts, Theology, Doctrine & Covenants by mormonmisc on February 5th, 2009

D&C Facts and History #1

I raise a number of questions I will address regarding the history and content of the Doctrine and Covenants including additions and deletions in various editions.

 

Joseph Smith’s selection for the D&C in 1835 and 1844 differed from that of Orson Pratt and Brigham Young in 1876. Does this fact raise any questions?

Book of Commandments.

1835 Doctrine and Covenants

General Assembly called to vote for or against the D&C

Early publication of some revelations.

Comments on D&C 76, 121, 109, 129-131, 89

Procedure regarding acceptance or rejection of revelation.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com

Podcast address: http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/

This is the 11 January 2009 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year. 

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Listen Now:


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Joseph Smith Papers Interview

Posted in Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts by mormonmisc on January 26th, 2009

Joseph Smith Papers Interview

The LDS Church has begun a major project involving professionally trained historians to gather, prepare, edit and publish the papers of Joseph Smith, mostly located in the LDS Archives. This is to meet the highest professional standards. The first volume was just published. It publishes, word for word, the journals of Joseph Smith for the period of 1832-1839, with many footnotes, biographical and geographical notes, a glossary and chronology. It begins with an exellent overview of the life of Joseph Smith.

I spent the evening conversing with Mark Ashurst-McGee and Richard Jensen, two of the editors of this first volume. The following is a list of some of the topics covered:

Nature of the journals

What they reveal of Joseph Smith

The degree of his religiosity

Remarkable Book Sales

Credibility of the editorial process

Objectivity of the editors

The involvement of LDS Authorities

Danites

Reasons the Church has hired LDS historians for this project

 

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com

Podcast address: http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/

This is the 4 January 2009 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year. 

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

 

Listen Now:


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Polygamy: Joseph Smith’s Letter of Explanation

Posted in Joseph Smith, Polygamy, Mormon History, All Podcasts, Book of Mormon Historicity by mormonmisc on December 20th, 2008

Polygamy: Joseph Smith’s Letter of Explanation

A letter of Joseph Smith on polygamy is well-known to many LDS as an article on Happiness. It was written such that its meaning would be hidden to those who do not know its historical context.

Its history includes a stir among LDS in Nauvoo in 1842, significant confrontations, exchanges in the newspapers, denials, defections and information on the early, private promulgation of polygamy.

Its content gives important insight into Joseph Smith’s views and even includes a revelation. Further, it is an excellent example of a literary form which clearly teaches an impressive message on the surface, but then buried beneath the surface is a deeper message comparable to occasions when Jesus taught something seemingly simple but then invited his disciples to think deeper with the phrase “he that hath ears to hear, let him hear.”

Those interested in a copy of the Joseph Smith letter discussed which I have placed in a parallel column with D&C 132 send your request to van.hale@k-talk.com and I will send it to you by email.

 

This is the 7 September 2008 episode.
 

 

 

 

 

 

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Would God … ?

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, New Testament, Joseph Smith, All Podcasts, Old Testament, Bible, God / Godhead, Theology by mormonmisc on November 27th, 2008

Would  God … ?

Numerous arguments resort to a declaration of what God would, or would not, do, often quoting a Biblical verse to bolster the argument. However, when the Bible is examined extensively, God’s parameters on many points seem very broad and often vary according to the circumstance as we see in pursuit of such questions as:

Does God cause sin? Does God deceive? Does God change? Does God punish one for someone else’s sin?

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

 Official website: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/

• This is the 13 July 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year.

• To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

• If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

 

Your voice will be heard around the world.

 

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

 

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below

I discuss this issue referring to a number of Biblical passages.

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More Thinking About Scriptures & Tradition

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts, Book of Mormon Historicity, Bible by mormonmisc on November 22nd, 2008

More Thinking About Scriptures & Tradition

I discuss some points raised by passages and situations in the scriptures.

 

• Israelite views of proselyting• Deuteronmy 32:8 and an ancient concept of God called henotheism

• New Testament writers drawing from the Old Testament without concern for historicity

• Issue of retaining or setting aside the Law

• Power of tradition - even the Saints are slow to accept anything contrary to their tradition

• Joseph Smith’s progressive outlook

• Questions on Book of Mormon Historicity

 

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

 

Official website: http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://mormonmisc.podbean.com/

• This is the 15 June 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year.

• To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

• If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

 

Your voice will be heard around the world.

 

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

 

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below

Listen Now:


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Mystery of the Book of Mormon Translation

Mystery of the Book of Mormon Translation

I discuss the numerous early sources, beginning in 1829, regarding the translation of the Book of Mormon. Differing statements, peculiaries versions of the Book of Mormon supervised by Joseph Smith (the original manuscript and the printer’s manuscript, the 1830, 1837 and 1840 editions) and points of logic and reason. These factors have lead to several theories as to the source of the text of the Book of Mormon. After some 180 years the matter yet remains a mystery.

I focus especially on questions pertaining to the use of the interpreters, urim and thummin, seerstone and director.

I explain my own theory of the Book of Mormon translation.

 

 

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Talk Show Blog:

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

 

This is the 24 August 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes To make a comment, click on “Comment” below

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Testimony, Faith, Belief, Knowledge

Testimony, Faith, Belief, Knowledge

I addressed several points touched upon in recent talk shows and in follow-up emails regarding testimony, faith, belief, knowledge, sure knowledge.I have been a little surprised at the divergence of opinion on what I think should be simple definitions and in the fervor of those who subscribe to these different positions.What does it mean to have a testimony? Does that mean a sure knowledge?

The LDS sources on this are extensive. We have good reason to be more precise in our use of words. When someone declares “I know…” I think there is value in that phrase having a precise meaning.

I read a number of sources which support my conclusion that belief and knowledge in our religious terminology are different. I am comfortable with being a believer and declaring my convictions as belief rather than knowledge.

Subjects raised by phone participants

Mountain Meadows Massacre

Common consent and false belief and prophecy

Degrees of knowledge

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS  Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 24 August 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year.To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below 

Listen Now:


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Mormons Who Ran for President

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts by mormonmisc on September 26th, 2008

Mormons Who Ran for President

Newell Bringhurst and Craig Foster joined me to discuss their new book on 10 Mormons who have run for President: The Mormon Quest for the Presidency. These include Joseph Smith, the two Romneys, Ezra Taft Benson, Orrin Hatch, Sonia Johnson and 4 others.

Points discussed include:

White Horse Prophecy Authors’ presentations in the upcoming Sunstone Symposium and FAIR Conference Conspiracy to assassinate Joseph Smith Why did Joseph decide to run for President? Was it Joseph Smith’s plan to move LDS headquarters from Nauvoo? Participation by callers and email

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS  Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 3 August 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below 

Listen Now:


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A Visit with a Mormon Apologist

A Visit with a Mormon Apologist

Mike Ash will be my guest to discuss his new book: Shaken Faith Syndrome: Strengthening One’s Testimony in the Face of Criticism and Doubt. His approach is the presentation of source material and logic to answer, from a faith promoting perspective, many issues which lead some to doubt their LDS faith. He deals with such topics as: Revelation, prophets, scripture and historical issues. Some of the specifics include, changes in scripture, response to the insistence that prophets must be infallible and omniscient, challenges to Book of Mormon histority and similar challenges to the Book of Abraham, the first vision issues and many others.

Major Issues which trouble LDS who study points raised by critics.

Polygamy Godhead Book of Mormon historicity  Book of Abraham historicity Differences in First Vision accounts Differences between scientists and some events in our scripture

 

LDS attitudes which lead to doubts

Belief that the Church and its leaders are infallible LDS in their testimonies declare that they know, rather than that they believe

Positions which dispell many arguments of critics  

Prophets are not infallible Prophets are not omniscientThe Church is not perfect  Scriptures are not perfect There is much to learn about God, salvation, mysteries which will not be learned in this life LDS prophets have differed in their beliefs on various doctrinal points God gives revelations which are unexpected Belief that parts of scripture are not to be taken literally There is very little mandatory doctrine Recognition of the shotgun approach of many critics

 

Issues raised  

The Church does not believe in civil rights A caller claimed that my guest and I are cultural Mormons who believe that the Church and its leaders are infallible. He claimed I am a liberal. I declared that he was correct; that I am a disciple of Joseph Smith, and by virtue of my belief in his teachings, I am a liberal.  Literal interpretation of Noah’s Flood

 

Discussion of a panel at the Sunstone Symposium which reviewed Mike Ash’s book  

Discussion of the recent FAIR Conference and the FAIR organization

 

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS   Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 17 August 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below 

 

 

Listen Now:


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Perspective of a Black Convert

 

Perspective of a Black Convert

My guest was Marvin Perkins, an enthusiastic Black Mormon. He is a convert to the LDS Church who has spent considerable time pondering and researching the issue of Blacks in LDS history and Scripture. He has been lecturing on the topic with long-time, well-known Black member, Darius Gray. They have published a set of two DVD’s of recorded live lectures. These are well organized presentations with a strong focus on insights, and I would say, surprises from the Scriptures. We discussed his perspective and included participants by phone and email. He and brother Gray host a website: http://www.blacksinthescriptures.com/

Topics discussed include:

Many relevant scriptures including new footnotes in the Book of Mormon.

Joseph Smith’s views on Blacks, slavery and the universality of the restoration.

Diversity of the views of Brigham Young and Joseph Smith.

Origin of the priesthood restriction for Black Mormons.

President David O. McKay’s view.

President Hinkley’s view.

Current needs within the Church to establish fully a universal brotherhood.

Blacks in the pre-existence.

The war in heaven.

The June 1978 revelation.

 

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS  

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 23 March 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below 

 

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Joseph Smith’s View of Ancient Curses

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts, Theology, Brigham Young by mormonmisc on July 12th, 2008

Joseph Smith’s View of Ancient Curses

I began by noting what I consider to be basic, elementary questions which require a leap of faith. They include: How what we know exists came to exist?; The universe: how? why? for what purpose? Is it the result of some intelligent design? Is it managed by a higher intelligence? Is all an accident or is it for some divine purpose?

Joseph Smith presented some of his views against slavery in the platform on which he was running for President. I discussed other sources in which we find Joseph Smith’s views.

I engaged in some debate with a caller over Joseph Smith’s views. I insisted that there has been no evidence, from sources produced before Joseph Smith’s death, that he believed an ancient curse was to be continued in the Restoration. And further, I presented some from a substantial body of sources that he believed that all should, regardless of ancestry, be considered equal, a view he was vigorously advocating at the time of his death. The caller, in his argument, ignored the statements of Joseph Smith written and published before his death, and rather relied upon a late reminiscence which alleged that Joseph Smith realized that he had been in error declared that the blacks were, in fact, yet under an ancient curse.

 

This is the 16 March 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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The Curse of Cain and Ham

The Curse of Cain and Ham

I discussed differing views of Mormons regarding slavery and priesthood denial to blacks. This is a complex historical and theological issue with many avenues of discussion. I will focus primarily upon the views of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. I discussed differing views of Mormons regarding slavery and priesthood denial to blacks. This is a complex historical and theological issue with many avenues of discussion. I will focus primarily upon the views of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.Also, I will raise and briefly address various angles and arguments which have been batted around over the past 17 decades:

  1. What was the curse on Cain?
  2. What was the curse on Ham?
  3. How long was the curse to continue?
  4. Did the slavery curse end with the Civil War?
  5. What of the view that Blacks are intellectually inferior?
  6. Did JS initiate Black priesthood denial?
  7. What were JS’s views on slavery?
  8. What was BY’s view on slavery?
  9. What scriptural support is there for priesthood denial?
  10. What scriptural support is there for modern continuation of slavery?
  11. How is a Black to be defined?
  12. When was importation of African slaves banned in the U.S.?

This is the 9 March 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below

 

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Why Common Consent

Why Common Consent?

From the very beginning of the Church to the present, the operation of its various entities and the general body of the Church itself exercise the principle of common consent on a wide range of decisions. From the very beginning of the Church to the present, the operation of its various entities and the general body of the Church itself exercise the principle of common consent on a wide range of decisions.If God calls prophets and directs their every action and belief by revelation why would common consent be the foundation of the operation of the Church organization?

From the very beginning of the Church to the present, the operation of its various entities and the general body of the Church itself exercise the principle of common consent on a wide range of decisions.If God calls prophets and directs their every action and belief by revelation why would common consent be the foundation of the operation of the Church organization?Why would the President and Prophet hold that position only with the consent of the faithful body of the Saints?

Why would the collection and publication of certain revelations to Joseph Smith and others require the vote of the Church members?

Why would a unanimous decision of the Quorum of the Twelve be more authoritative than than a majority decision?

Why would the President and Prophet consult with his counsellors on all important matters?

There are many historical sources which provide insights into these questions and reveal an important aspect of Joseph Smith’s views and claims. I will discuss these sources and the two major conclusions among LDS as to the intent and value of the principle of Common Consent.

 

This is the 2 March 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

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An Alleged Prophet

An Alleged Prophet

Art Bulla has been claiming for almost 3 decades to be the successor of Joseph Smith holding the highest priesthood keys, being the Lord’s annointed and even superior to Joseph Smith and his successors, claiming to be One Mighty and Strong, to set an apostate LDS Church in order.After many years of discussion on the air and in person with Art Bulla I have decided to address his claims directly by talking about some basic principles of Mormonism introduced by Joseph Smith and endorsed by his successors, but ignored or denied by Bulla. I have tried hard to understand his claims.

Basically, he claims that his having been ordained a 70 gives him the highest priesthood keys, eventhough he was excommunicated from the Church. He argues that a person need not be a member of the Church to hold the highest priesthood keys. In fact, he claims that the highest keys are held by a council known as the Council of 50, organized by Joseph Smith in 1844. However, to be a member of this Council, according to Bulla, holding the highest priesthood keys, a person did not need to believe in Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, the Bible, Jesus or God.

Bulla claims he received the highest priesthood keys from the Church, which he asserts has been in apostasy for some time. I have asked him a number of times to trace the highest keys, those to be held only by one man at a time on the earth, from Joseph Smith to himself. He has never gone beyond Joseph Smith, Brigham Young or John Taylor. He weaves a claim of revelation; a pre-existent foreordination; ordination to a 70 before his excommunication; extension of the priesthood to the blacks in 1978, resulting, as he alleges, to a latter-day apostasy of the Church; a total disregard for the vision of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, of great success and expansion of the Church worldwide, diminishing this vision to that of one prophet holding the keys, with one disciple, no Church or priesthood quorums.

I discuss such Mormon Basics as:

The highest priesthood keys were to be invested in the Church.

The President of the Church is the President of the High Priesthood.

All who leave the Church or are excommunicated hold no priesthood keys or authority.

There is to be no modern-day apostasy of the Church.

The meaning of D&C 85 on the “one mighty and strong.”

 

 

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Understanding the United Firm

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts by mormonmisc on June 10th, 2008

Understanding the United FirmMy guest was Max Parkin. He is retired from the LDS Church Educational System (CES) after spending a lifetime in the study and teaching of Mormon topics.

Currently, he is working with many others on the extensive Joseph Smith Papers Project. Specifically he is dealing with those Joseph Smith documents for the period of 1834-1838. Max gave details about this project which is to result in the publication of some 30 volumes.

Max provided important clarification of economics of the Church in Kirtland and Missouri in 1832-1834. Click to read his 73 page article on the subject.He explained such terms as:

The United Firm

The United Order

The Order of Enoch

Consecration

Stewardship

He addressed such issues as:

Ownership of property - Church owned and individually owned

Financial workings of the Church during this early period

Reasons for the failure of the the United Firm in Kirtland

Reasons for conflicts between the Saints and the non-LDS residents in Independence Missouri.

Deed of ownership and deed of stewardship

Max explained that the publication of revelations (78, 82, 102, 103, 104) in the 1835 D&C were altered to disguise the United Firm and those who were its managers.

Callers:

Discussion with a caller on tithing and celestial law.

Response to caller regarding his claim that the motivation of Church leaders has always been greed.

Discussion with a caller on consecration

A question from a caller about having all things in common. Max explained that Joseph Smith had no view of common ownership.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

This is the 8 June 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 29th year.To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

 

 

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Rethinking the Old Testament

Posted in Joseph Smith, All Podcasts, Old Testament, Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham by mormonmisc on May 10th, 2008

Rethinking the Old Testament

I discuss a number of points from my study of the Old Testament which have contributed to the formulation of my conclusions regarding what it means to me and my religious tradition.The Old Testament is not a book of history.

It is not a book of Science.

Genesis 30 - the speckled and spotted sheep and goats.

Extreme Views of the Old Testament

It is entirely, word-for-word, God’s word. I find this unbelievable for many reasons.

Joseph Smith explained that some of the Old Testament pertains to us, but much does not.

There has never been anything like universal consensus as to the list of books which belong in the Old Testament. It has never been settled and appears that it never will be.

Discussion with callers on what to believe regarding supernatural claims in the Old Testament and elsewhere in our religious tradition, addressing some specifics such as the Book of Abraham, Book of Mormon and the miracles of Jesus.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 20 January 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Death of Joseph Smith Miscellaneous Topics

Posted in Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts, Old Testament, Anti-Mormon Allegations, Bible by mormonmisc on April 17th, 2008

Death of Joseph Smith Miscellaneous Topics

Comments on the new LDS Church Almanac.

Accusation and response that the Church leaders are only interested in their callings in the Church for personal financial gain.

Allegations, prompted by Mitt Romney’s candidacy for President of the U.S., that he and other Mormons are not Christians, and that his religious beliefs should disqualify him for public office.

Brief article on “The Wrong Jesus and The Wrong Satan” by Bill Forrest.

Discussion with a caller about details of the death of Joseph and Hyrum. I read what purports to be the coroner’s report of June 28, 1844.

Discussion with a caller on Noah’s ark and the question of the historicity of all Biblical detail.

This is the 6 Januray 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

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God’s Omniscience: Diversity of Mormon Views

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts, God / Godhead, Theology by mormonmisc on March 2nd, 2008

God’s Omniscience:

Diversity of Mormon Views

In this episode I discuss several differing views of LDS leaders, including Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, Wilford Woodruff, B. H. Roberts, Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie on the topic of God’s omniscience.

Joseph Smith and Brigham Young emphatically declared that the most spiritually advanced in this life will know but little of even the basics of the plan of salvation at the time of their death. From this perspective, they established an LDS position which persists - that we have no carefully worded creed which a person must accept to be LDS. Both of them advocated searching, pondering and speculating upon concepts, even mysteries. This, of course, resulted in a religious climate among the Saints where there would naturally be a diversity of views on even some basic topics, even regarding God and the Godhead.

I discuss the differences between Orson Pratt and Brigham Young on the whether God, or the Gods, progress in knowledge. Their differences resulted in published statements of the First presidency, and the First Presidency and the Twelve, to the Saints and comments in sermons by several General Authorities in the 1860s.   More recently, Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie, in the 1950s and 1960s expressed their views on the subject.

Email Participants (the phone system went down and thus there were no phone participants)

  1. Mormons are so busy chasing after other Gods that they cannot know the one God of the Bible. I comment on this position.
  2. A long email from a frequent participant denounces pursuit of our religious belief through research and study. He claims that we must turn to him; that he will tell us the truths we need to know; and that we are to pray to God, not for further knowledge, but rather, only for confirmation what this self-proclaimed prophet has declared. In my response I wandered off on to the question of, Who is Jehovah in Mormon belief in the 19th century in contrast to belief in the 20th century?
  3. Another email further argues that Mormons do not believe in the God of the Bible and cannot, therefore, be Christians. The God of the Bible is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. I, of course, respond.  

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 9 December 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Development of Mormon Thought on the Holy Ghost

Development of Mormon Thought

on the Holy Ghost

I trace the development of Mormon thought, from 1829 to the present, on the Holy Ghost. I pursue such questions as:

Is the Holy Ghost a personage?

What is the future of the Holy Ghost?

Was Joseph Smith the Holy Ghost?

Why did the current LDS view of the Holy Ghost take so long to develop?

Regarding the Holy Ghost, I discuss the Book of Mormon and other early sources, specifically Lecture Five in a series of lectures given in 1834, and Joseph Smith’s teachings during the last four years of his life in Nauvoo.

Participants by Phone and Email

  1. I read and responded to an email which asserts that the Bible teaches there is one God expressed in three persons. I read several Biblical passages which draw a clear distinction between God and Jesus and others which refer to the existence of a number of gods.
  2. A caller addressed himself to this topic and we further discussed the question of the deity of Jesus as related to the New Testament.
  3. A caller contributed several views regarding the spirit of man and the workings of the Holy Ghost.
  4. Further discussion with a caller regarding the early LDS views (1830s) of the Father as a spirit in contrast to Joseph Smith’s teaching in Nauvoo (1841-1844) that the Father has resurrected body of flesh and bones like that of Jesus.

 

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 2 December 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Development of Joseph Smith’s Concept of God

Development of Joseph Smith’s

Concept of God

Joseph Smith acknowledged that his views were progressive - that is, his views of God differed on a number of points from 1829 to 1844. From a number of sources I have developed the following approximate timeline for the development of Joseph Smith’s views of God.

  1. Jesus is God. 1829-1844
  2. Jesus pre-existed as the Son. 1829-1844
  3. In some way Jesus is the Son and also the Father. 1829-1833
  4. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one. 1829-1844
  5. The Father is a personage of spirit 1829-1835 or 1834-1835
  6. The Holy Ghost is not a personage, but rather the mind of the Father and the Son. 1834-1841
  7. The Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit awaiting the opportunity to take upon himself a body of flesh and bones. 1841-1844
  8. The Saints have the potential to become gods and goddesses. 1832-1844
  9. Our God and Father has a God and Father. 1841-1844
  10. The Father went through mortality and has a resurrected body of flesh and bones like that of Jesus. 1841-1844
  11. There is an Eternal God of all other Gods. 1838-1841
  12. There is one God above another with no end. 1841-1844
  13. There was a grand council of Gods to plan and create this world. 1839-1844

I discussed the four main points of the King Follett discourse of 7 April 1844.  

Participation by Phone and Email

  1. I respond to an email condemning Brigham Young and his view of Adam as God. Did he believe in a different God than the God of the Bible?
  2. Why are there two different trinities in LDS thought: Elohim, Jehovah and the Holy Ghost; and, Elohim, Jehovah and Michael?
  3. Comments on Brigham Young’s position that there would be differences on God if saints ancient and modern where gathered together.
  4. Does not the Book of Mormon present the idea that God could cease to be God?
  5. A caller condemns me for not accepting his views about Brigham Young’s teachings regarding Adam. I explain my preference for Joseph Smith’s view over that of Brigham Young on this point.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 25 November 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Brigham Young’s Belief that Adam is God

Brigham Young’s Belief that Adam is God

On this talk show I answer a number of questions regarding Brigham Young’s unique beliefs regarding Adam. This has been a controversial topic for more than 100 years. Answers the following questions are included:

  1. What did Brigham Young believe?
  2. To what extent did he teach his views?
  3. Did he consider his authoritative; that is, official Mormon doctrine?
  4. Does his role as president and prophet demand that his views be accepted by LDS?
  5. Did his contemporaries in the Church hierarchy accept his views?
  6. Did his views on Adam differ from those of Joseph Smith?

Callers and Email

  • Joseph Smith’s view that spirits are eternal and Brigham Young’s view that spirits begin to exist through a spirit birth.
  • A caller spoke in defense of his view that Adam is God citing some passages and arguments.
  • Change of one word in the introduction of the Book of Mormon.    

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 18 November 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

Listen Now:


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Discussion of God with Martin Tanner

Posted in New Testament, Joseph Smith, All Podcasts, Old Testament, Bible, God / Godhead, Theology, Adam God belief by mormonmisc on February 7th, 2008

Discussion of God With

Martin Tanner

Discussion with my guest Martin Tanner on the following topics:

Trinity

Book of Mormon doctrine

Early Mormon views of God

Diversity and development of concepts of God within Mormonism.

Questions by Email and Phone

What about monotheism in Isaiah and the trinitarianism or tritheism of the Book of Mormon at the same time?

What about God and gender?

Brigham Young’s view of Adam as God vs Evolution vs accounts of creation in Genesis, Moses, Abraham.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 11 November 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Is the God of Mormonism the God of the Bible?

I considered this question from notes I prepared two years ago for a formal debate on the topic with a Calvinist minister. My approach is more as a discussion than a debate due to the fact that four issues must be resolved before we could properly debate the question, “Is the God of Mormonism the God of the Bible?” They are:

1. Which Bible?

2. What is the Biblical concept of Deity?

3. What is the Mormon concept of Deity?

4. Are we referring to the identity of God or to divergent views of God’s attributes and actions?

Callers and Email:

1. The reasoning behind non-LDS Christian arguments that Mormons are not Christians; divergent concepts of salvation.

2. A caller and I disagreed on two main points: That the belief that Jesus and Satan are brothers demeans Jesus; and that the belief that Jesus created Satan out of nothing, flawed such that Jesus knew Satan would fall and become the author of evil, makes Jesus the creator, or the one responsible for all evil. Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 11 November 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Defining Mormon Concepts of Deity

Defining Mormon Concepts of Deity

In this episode I compare and contrast Mormon concepts of Deity with those terms used in the historic Christian debate to identify some of the many views argued during the past 1800 years. I define and discuss, as related to Mormon views, such terms as: trinitarian, unitarian, binitarian, monotheism, polytheism, tritheism, henotheism, modalism, monarchianism, homoousian, homoiousion.

My interest in the history, evolution and debate of these ideas has lead to my attempt to define the Mormon concepts of Deity.  Due to the fact that there have been developments of doctrinal concepts from 1829 to the present, in this episode, I focus on the first period, 1829 to 1844, the ministry of Joseph Smith.

Callers:

What is monarchianism?

What about Brian Hale’s comment that polygamy was a commandment from 1852-c.1890 after which, for some 14 years, it was an option rather than a command, before it was discontinued entirely. What was the second manifesto of 1904?

This caller falsely claimed that I am a Darwinist and thus cannot believe in God. I have denied his allegations several times previously. He proclaimed his belief that Adam is God.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 28 October 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

Listen Now:


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God as a Close Personal Father

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, New Testament, Joseph Smith, All Podcasts, Bible, God / Godhead by mormonmisc on November 13th, 2007

God as a Close Personal Father

For me personally, one of the most powerful concepts taught by Joseph Smith concerns the relationship between God and man - the concept resulting in the Primary song, “I am a child of God.”

For me personally, one of the most powerful concepts taught by Joseph Smith concerns the relationship between God and man - the concept resulting in the Primary song, “I am a child of God.”

Jesus encountered a Jewish society wherein the current views of God, the result of several centuries of evolution, placed a giant gulf between God and man. To first century Jews, God was transcendent. In theology this term refers to the degree of difference between God and the physical world and mankind. The higher the concept of transcendence, the greater the gulf between God and man. Many have, and do, believe God’s transcendence is such that, to man, God is beyond all comprehension; completely unknowable; that he is “wholly other;” he is the Creator, and we are the creation.

Jesus eradicated this gulf by declaring a close relationship between God and man unheard of in ancient Israel. Jesus spoke of God as even more anthropomorphic than that found in the most ancient Israelite belief before the several centuries just preceding the Chrisitan era when the concept of a transcendent God developed.

During his ministry Jesus introduced God as his personal Father, and the personal Father of his disciples. His view was not just that God is our personal Father, but that he is our close personal Father to be addressed with a term no Jew would have considered using for God.

Along the way, the early Christian church discarded Jesus’ view and restored the concept of transcendence, even to what may well be the ultimate degree. During Joseph Smith’s efforts to restore primitive Christianity, he re-introduced, with great clarity, the concept taught by Jesus, including a new dimension.

The research of highly respected modern non-Mormon New Testament scholars, and modern translations of the New Testament have provided considerable insight into Jesus’ unique view of man’s relationship to God. I discuss the research published about 50 years ago which uncovered this lost concept of Jesus and startled many modern Christian scholars. I also present a number of striking sources including a number of modern renderings of relevant New Testament passages from some of the modern translations.

Creator / creation relationship between man and God.

Father / son relationship between man and God.

Potential to transcend the position of a creation to be a son with the potential to become like our Father - God.

Jesus’s use of the Aramaic word “Abba” for God, his Father and our Father.

Anthropomorphic concept of God.

Callers and Email:

Is not Book of Mormon theology trinitarian; discussion of different interpretations of the trinity and several Book of Mormon passages.

This caller is moved more by the idea of our relationship to God as a Father than as God as a Creator, like the relationship of a painter to his painting.

More on the theology of God in the Book of Mormon.

How is Christ the Creator.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 21 October 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

 

Listen Now:


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Research Notes

Research Notes

I have a large collection of miscellaneous quotations, sources, references and notes which I have collected on a variety of subjects while involved in specific research projects. From time to time, I bring some of these to my talk show. In this one I presented the following six:

1. An allegation that Mormons murdered Lilburn Boggs, ex-Governor of Missouri, while he was on his way to California.

2. Peter H. Burnett, who was one of Joseph Smith’s attorneys and the first governor of California, wrote his impression of Joseph Smith.

3. John Taylor on truth and science. He taught that an appropriate pursuit of truth by Mormons is to set aside preconceived notions and bias and to search for truth from all possible sources, including the sciences.

4. Orson Pratt’s 1846 sermon, found in a journal entry of Norton Jacob, comments on the dating of creation.

5. Brigham Young speaks of his and Joseph Smith’s views on the resurrection as matters of individual belief. He endorsed individual speculation and belief, but not the assertion that this is the belief of the Church.

6. 21 January 1861 Wilford Woodruff’s synopsis of  Brigham Young’s sermon in which he speculates on the stature, in the resurrection, of those who died in infancy.

Callers and email:

All Mormons are liars, arrogant and do not believe in the Constitution and should not be protected by the first amendment.

Follow up from my discussion with Blake Ostler. Is there an ultimate head God, or is there an infinite order of Gods one above another?

Email from an evangelical Christian denouncing me and Mormonism.

Through the power of God, did the sun stand still for Joshua to allow him time to complete his attack?

Speculation regarding details of the resurrection.

Manifesto, revelation to John Taylor, revelation extending priesthood to the blacks, one mighty and strong.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 9 September 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

 

Listen Now:


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History with an LDS Historian

Posted in Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts, Bible by mormonmisc on September 20th, 2007

resources_MD.jpgHistory With an

LDS Historian

I was very pleased to have Ronald Barney as my guest. He is a professional historian who has been employed in the LDS Historical Department for the past 30 years. He has published widely on Mormon topics including an award winning book, The Mormon Vanguard Brigade of 1847: Norton Jacob’s Record. He is also working on the extensive multi-volume work, the Joseph Smith Papers Project.

Topics of Discussion

Joseph Smith Papers Project - scope, problems and projected publication.

Udney Hay Jacobs - author of “The Peace Maker,” an essay on marriage, including the idea that the Old Testament form of marriage, including plural marriage, should be reinstated. It was published at Nauvoo by the Times and Seasons press before he joined the LDS Church. This has been the subject of some controversy as to its author. It has been claimed that Joseph Smith authored this or collaborated in the content.

Norton Jacobs, son of Udney, joined the LDS Church. He kept a fine journal. Ron has edited this diary, adding much by way of footnotes. It is a very fine publication covering part of the Nauvoo period and the first company of Saints to travel to Salt Lake Valley in 1847.

Personal Writings of Joseph Smith - letters, diaries articles and the Liberty Jail letter.

From Callers and Email

Where was the Church organized, Fayette or Manchester?

What is the Kirtland Revelations Book?

The Joseph Smith translation of the Bible.

The DVD publication by the Church of over 400,000 pages of documents from its manuscript collection, including the entire Joseph Smith collection.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 9 September 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

Listen Now:


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Spalding Theory of Book of Mormon Authorship

Posted in Joseph Smith, All Podcasts, Anti-Mormon Allegations, Book of Mormon by mormonmisc on September 4th, 2007

The Spalding Theory of Book of Mormon

Authorship 

SpaldingMs3.jpg         SpaldingMs2.jpg           BMtitlepage.jpg

My guests, Wayne L. Cowdrey, Howard A. Davis and Arthur Vanick, are authors of Who Really Wrote the Book of Mormon? The Spalding Enigma. The authors argue for the view that Solomon Spalding, who died in 1816 wrote two manuscripts about the inhabitants of ancient America, one from 1809 to 1812 and another from c.1812 to c.1814.

The second was acquired by Sidney Rigdon from a printing office in Pittsburg, where he was allegedly working, and then spent some 18 months meeting with Joseph Smith in Palmyra 1827-1829 where religious material was added to Spaldings story/history and published as the Book of Mormon. This has been the most popular theory among non-Mormons throughout most of Mormon history. For about the last 70 years, the theory has been discarded by most, including a number of prominent anti-Mormon advocates. This book is an attempt to resurrect the theory.

I presented some of many points which I think demonstrate to the rational mind that the theory is bogus. The authors countered with expanations and arguments which they think establish beyond doubt that Spalding was the author of the Book of Mormon.The following synopsis was written just following this radio discussion.

Mr. Hale said he was skeptical of reminiscences provided by persons as late as 50 years after the publication of the Book of Mormon. He stated that the Spalding/Rigdon theory is entirely based upon alleged memories. There are no pre-1830 sources which described Solomon Spalding’s literary production or Sidney Rigdon’s acquaintance with the Joseph Smith, Sr. family living in western New York.  Mr. Hale said that testimony of early neighbors of the Smith family should have included specific points later brought up by Lorenzo Saunders, if those points were common knowledge. The fact that Howe did not include statements that the Smiths’ neighbors knew of  Rigdon’s frequent visits from 1827-1830 or rumors of Rigdon impregnating Catherine Smith seems to devastate the credibility of Saunders alleged memories on this particular point. Mr. Hale said he did not believe that such a story was in circulation at an early date. Mr. Hale gave three reasons for finding Bennett’s 1831 article unbelieveable. Bennett’s inability to provide the name of a visitor from Ohio beyond “Henry Rangdon or Ringdon or some such word” is inconsistent with Bennett’s claim that he was privy to Rangdon’s suggestion that the Smith’s turn their  “their digging concern into a religious plot.”  He did not know his name, but did know of his secret suggestion to the Smiths.

Bennett, six times, called this man an “ex-preacher” or “ex-parson” from Ohio, during a time when substantial evidence establishes that Sidney Rigdon was not only an extremely active preacher, establishing nine new congregations in 1828, but was, in fact, the most famous preacher in northern Ohio. Bennett, or some unamed source, seems to have purloined a suggestion already circulating that “the first idea of a ‘Book’ was doubtless suggested to the Smiths by one Walters, a juggling fortune-teller” replacing Walters with Rangdon/Ringdon/Rigdon.

Further, Bennett asserts that this “Ohio man” was so “famous” for his “particular felicity in finding out the spots of ground where money is hid,” and who had “much experience in money digging” that his fame had found its way 200 miles from Ohio to upstate New York. When Rigdon became a Mormon in December 1830, he was vigorously opposed by Campbell, Scott, Bentley (his brother-in-law), along with other mininsters, including 3 cousins and another brother-in-law who had all become Disciple Ministers. However, none of these, nor others who knew Rigdon well, even in their opposition, suggested any knowledge of Rigdon’s money digging fame, which Bennett alleged stretched to up-state New York.

Mr. Hale noted that in November and December of 1833 Hurlbut interviewed or contacted at least 83 of Joseph Smith’s neighbors, and Howe published 23 of their statements. None indicate any knowledge of Sidney Rigdon’s presence in the neighborhood in 1827-1830. Mr. Hale finds it inconceiveable that, given Howe’s interest in connecting Sidney Rigdon with the production of the Book of Mormon, he would not have published such statements if he had such. Further, the alleged memories of Saunder’s, Gilbert, Chase, Lillie, Anderick and Tucker, 40 to 60 years later claim many neighbors knew of frequent visits by Sidney Rigdon to the Smiths from 1827-1830, some claiming to have been informed by the Smiths themselves and even alleging a “story was around the neighborhood that Catherine Smith was pregnant by Rigdon.” Yet, none of 83 Smith neighbors provide any recollection of such in 1833. It seems obvious that the late alleged recollections rather reflect knowledge of developing myths to which they added their own embellishments. Mr. Hale said that he believed that Solomon Spalding only wrote one fictional story about ancient America. There were some striking, but superficial, similarities. Spalding claims that while walking near the Conneaught River, he noticed a flat stone. He raised the stone to find an artificial cave in which he found a box. Upon opening the box he found an ancient record. He translated only a portion of the record. Spalding presented himself not as the author, but as the translator of a manuscript written by a man, who with others, came to America by boat, long before Columbus. This manuscript tells of the customs, government, religion and the wars of ancient American nations now extinct. It is filled with strange names of people and places. When some Spalding neighbors were introduced to the Book of Mormon, it was suggested that it sounded like the Spalding story “Manuscript Found” which they had heard or read 20-25 years earlier. Their introduction to the Book of Mormon resulted in considerable embellishment and addition to their naturally faded memory resulting in the insertion of BoM-specific names and narrative information into their public statements. There are no known earlier statements or descriptions of a Spalding manuscript with any specific Book of Mormon names or details.

Mr. Hale argued that Solomon Spalding, according to the authors’ theory (p. 27) produced a second fictional story regarding the ancient inhabitants of the Americas in Pittsburg 1812-1814. Following Hurlbut’s retrieval of Spalding’s Roman story with parallels to the Book of Mormon too superficial to argue for some connection, a new claim was made - two stories by Spalding on the subject of pre-Columbus America. The new claim, not supported by the 8 original statements, alleged that Spalding altered his first plan of writing and commenced writing a Ten Lost Tribes story. According to this new scenario, the Roman Story was first and the Ten Tribes story second. A beginning draft of an unrelated letter in the Roman story on page 132 of the 171 page manuscript acknowledges the receipt of 2 letters “jun 1812.” This establishes that the last 35 pages of the Roman manuscript were written after June 1812. Spalding moved to Pittsburg four months later in October 1812. This supports the authors’ dating of the Ten Tribes manuscript to 1812-1814, if such were ever written — How, then, could Oliver Smith testify that he had read BoM-specific information in a Spalding MS as early as 1809, when the Spalding manuscript with BoM-specific information was not written until 1812-1814 in Pittsburg?

Mr. Hale argued that since 1833 statements for the claims of Spalding authorship state that the lost “Ten Tribes” began a journey from Jerusalem to the New World, that the claims were unbelieveable — that Spalding would never have brought the ten tribes forth from Jerusalem. Before being carried away to Assyria, never again to return, they were the Northern Kingdom and were never residents of Jerusalem. Spalding had studied divinity at Dartmouth College and was a licensed Congregational minister for 8-10 years. He certainly would not have defied the common knowledge among even amateur Bible students that the lost Ten Tribes, or a small group of them, would have begun their journey to America from Jerusalem which had never been their place of residence. Further, the Book of Mormon specifically declares that the Ten Tribes were elsewhere. What seems obvious is that the 8 Spalding neighbors were working in reverse. A number of early 1830 newspapers reported the common false perception that the Book Mormon was about the Ten Tribes or their descendants in America. Operating from this assumption demanded that Spalding’s neighbors, to establish a precise parallel, ascribe to Spalding’s story the common false perception that the Book of Mormon was about the Ten Tribes coming to America from Jerusalem. They presumably looked at the first few pages of the Book of Mormon where they would have encountered Lehi, Nephi, Moroni and Laban. The second sentence of the first page of the 1830 Book of Mormon identifies Lehi’s place of departure as Jerusalem. Their knowing, or unknowing, amalgation of these facts and perceptions seems to be the more likely source of their allege memories.

Mr. Hale doubted Aron Wright’s ability to identify the Roman manuscript shown to him by Hurlbut based upon the handwriting, having seen Spalding’s handwriting more than 20 years earlier. Modern investigators are on record as disagreeing over which old specimens of handwriting can actually be traced back to Spalding’s pen. Hale, however, does believe the manuscript shown to Wright was an authentic Spalding in his handwriting. [I was sidetracked on this point. It is of nominal significance.]

Mr. Hale said that the allegation that the title is “Manuscript Story–Conneaut Creek” is more probably someone’s description than Spalding’s chosen title. This line is on  a sheet of paper in which the manuscript was wrapped. None of the handwriting on the wrapper was Spalding’s. Mr. Hale observed this fact  based upon his comparison of the faint, but unmistakable, style of the 2 penciled “Cs” in “Manuscript Story–Conneaut Creek” on the wrapper, with the remarkably different style of capital “Cs” written by Spalding throughout his manuscript. The authors’ claim (p. 81) that “the writing on the wrapper gives every appearance of being Solomon Spalding’s own” is clearly wrong. From the first chapter’s description of Spalding’s finding of the manuscript by prying up a stone, going into a cave, opening a box and finding 28 sheets of parchment which he translated from Latin, the title, “Manuscript Found,” would certainly be fitting and the penciled line is not relevant. Mr. Hale discounted Mrs. Eichbaum’s reminiscence, because it was first written down at a late date (1879) and because Howe’s book quotes a Mr. Patterson as saying he did not know about Spalding’s MS. The discussion did include an 1842 Robert Patterson statement in Samuel Williams’ pamphlet, nor the later reminiscence provided by Elder William Small. Mr. Hale was certain that Sidney Rigdon visited Pittsburgh as a young man. His response to the appearance of Rigdon’s name in published Pittsburgh letter lists, was that the printing of such a list showed that the recipient had NOT picked up any such letters waiting for him — thus tending to demonstrate that he had NOT frequented the Pittsburgh Post Office to the extent Eichbaum claimed in her statement.

Mr. Hale doubts the value of Arthur B. Deming’s published statements because the witnesses were very old, and separated from the events by some sixty years and Deming offered to pay contributors to his newspaper for their submission of negative statements. Mr. Hale read Deming’s offer in his first issue of Naked Truths about Mormonism to pay a “fair price” for negative material “regarding the origin and early history of Mormonism” “if used.” It seems impossible not to find suspect this form of alleged memory, often contradictory and frequently compound hearsay.

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Theology With Blake Ostler

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts, Old Testament by mormonmisc on August 27th, 2007

Theology With Blake Ostler

Blake has authored a number of papers and articles and currently has completed two volumes of his multi-volume set, Exploring Mormon Thought.

Joseph Smith’s basic teaching that Mormons are open to receiving all truth; that Mormonism is progressive, looking for development of its beliefs in a variety of ways including thought, pondering and continued revelation, opens the path for the consideration of various aspects and angles beyond the parameters of basic Mormon doctrine.

Joseph Smith opposed the idea of a creed because it sets up stakes beyond which a person is not to think. Instead he encouraged LDS to seek deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness.

We discussed our differences in our interpretations of Joseph Smith’s views as found in D&C 121:28-32 and two discourses: 7 April 1844 and 16 June 1844. Blake concludes that Joseph Smith believed that there is one Eternal God of all other gods. I conclude that, by 1844, Joseph Smith  believed that there is an infinite patriarchy of Gods - that there is no God who does not have a Father and God.

Topics Raised by Callers and Email

Is not the Articles of Faith a creed, if not why?

What is the status of progressive Mormonism and Mormon neo-orthodoxy?

What about W.W. Phelps hymn “If you could hie to Kolob”?

What is a creed?

By Joseph Smith’s declaration that Jesus followed in the footsteps of his Father, does he mean that the Father was the Savior of the world upon which he went through mortality? Blake is trying to harmonize JS’s Nauvoo teachings on plurality of gods with his 1835 Book of Abraham council of gods. According to JS’s logic if there was a first God, there would have to be a last. What about the Adam God doctrine of Brigham Young?

God does not have a navel.

The Adam God theory is basic gospel truth and those who reject it will be damned.

Does God the Father have a Father?

Who was God the Father’s Father when he went through mortality?

Allegation that Joseph Smith believed the Adam God theory.

 

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 26 August 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Polygamy Discussion with Author, Carmon Hardy

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, Polygamy, Mormon History, All Podcasts by mormonmisc on July 25th, 2007

Polygamy Discussion with Author, Carmon Hardy My guest was B. Carmon Hardy, author of Doing the Works of Abraham: Mormon Polygamy, Its origin, practice, and demise. His book is a collection of important documents on polygamy throughout its history in 19th century Mormonism. Hardy includes his comments and footnotes throughout. It is an excellent work which I highly recommend.

We discussed a number of the controversial issues regarding the Mormon practice of polygamy in the 19th century, including:

the origin;

Book of Mormon references;

why there is almost no evidence that Joseph Smith had children by any wife but Emma;

why some women who were already married were sealed to Joseph Smith;

the 1879 Supreme Court ruling;

early denials of the practice;

the 1852 public announcement of the practice and subsequent defense of the principle, etc.

A number of listeners participated by phone and email.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 22 July 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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King Follett Discourse: Textual History and Controversy

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts by mormonmisc on July 19th, 2007

last-conference.jpg 

King Follett Discourse: Textual History and Controversy

On 7 April 1844 Joseph Smith spoke to the largest audience of Saints assembled during his lifetime. He brought together concepts he had touched upon for several years into a very important doctrinal address. It was then, and has continued throughout Mormon history, to be a controversial declaration of his views about how God came to be God and His intent for the progression of men to become gods. Joseph Smith explained that there is much to know in regard to salvation and exaltation which will not be known until long after we leave this life, but that there is much to be known in this life by those Saints inclined to seek.

Several doctrinal points in the discourse have lead some, over the past 130 years, to question or dispute the accuracy of the the published report of this discourse. They are:

1. The plurality of Gods 2. The stature in the resurrection of those who die in infancy 3. The concept that all mankind existed as intelligences before becoming spirits.

I present the findings from my research of a number of unpublished sources in the LDS Archives to address these arguments.

I discuss the four reports which were taken, by whom and how they were amalgamated to result in the standard version published during the past 100 years.

I include a six column parallel of these three sections of the discourse which have been the focus of these arguments. Four columns give the text from the four who wrote reports of the discourse, one column gives the first published version of 1844, authorized by the Quorum of the Twelve, and the other column gives the version prepared in 1855, examined and approved by Brigham Young for inclusion in the History of the Church - the one which has been published during the past 100 years.

Several, through phone calls and email, participated with questions and comments on the King Follett discourse, the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon, criticism of other callers.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 15 July 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes. The article I used in this episode is now available in my eStore

To make a comment, click on “comment” below.

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Open Forum

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, All Podcasts, Book of Mormon Historicity by mormonmisc on July 12th, 2007

Open Forum

This episode was an open forum. I began by responding to an email from the last program on the Oath of Vengeance. The author of the email contended that Wilford Woodruff could not be trusted in his statement about the endowment ceremony because he had not been forthright regarding some plural marriages following the Manifesto. I responded by applying common sense and common experience to the question of credibility, reading two comments by Joseph Smith.

The first caller lead me into a discussion of the historicity of the Book of Mormon.

The second caller is the disciple of Art Bulla. He defended Bulla’s previous challenge for me to meet him for a fist fight, claiming Bulla was acting, in this challenge, under God’s direction. Bulla claims to be God’s legitimate sole priesthood leader. He was followed by Art Bulla who responded.

A caller discussed with me the propensity of humans to keep many things secret.

Several other callers pursued various topics, some salient others ridiculous.

It was a fun program for me, but I would understand those who found portions of the discussion too outrageous to be worthwhile. This is the nature of open talk radio, it is unpredictable and can only be controlled by imposing strong censorship.  

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 1 July 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “comment” below.

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Bits and Pieces

Posted in Uncategorized, Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts by mormonmisc on June 27th, 2007

Bits and Pieces

I presented follow-up comments on several recent episodes:

Am I a Darwinist as frequently alleged by a caller, Art Bulla, who claims to be the Lord’s Anointed, the One Mighty and Strong?

A caller on 17 June made absurd allegations about the origin of the text of the Book of Abraham. I asked for his sources. He gave two. I reported on my findings after checking out his claimed sources.

I made a follow-up comment on two recent episodes covering Joseph Smith’s accounts of the First Vision.

I mentioned a very good brief summary article on Mountain Meadows Massacre by noted historian, Rick Turley, to appear in the Church’s September issue of the Ensign. The Church has pre-released this article and has posted it on its website, http://lds.org/. I highly recommend it.

I commented briefly on the alleged Oath of Vengeance. It has been claimed by several recent authors that a primary motive for the Mountain Meadows Massacre was to fulfill an oath taken by Mormons in the temple endowment ceremony to avenge the blood of Joseph and Hyrum through acts of murder. I did not present the material I had prepared for this episode, but have decided to dedicate a program in the next several weeks to this topic.

Callers frequently ask or comment on my views regarding the Book of Mormon historicity issue. I read a brief summary of my view.

Several callers participated. One, Art Bulla, called in making a false allegation about my procedure. As I tried to respond, he refused to allow it by interrupting and over-talking me with a name-calling attack and a challenge to a fist fight. I assume all this display is intended to demonstrate that he is the Lord’s Annointed - the One Mighty and Strong.   Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDSOfficial website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ 

Talk Show Blog: www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 24 June 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world.

Check the right Sidebar for a Catalog of related Articles now available

To make a comment, click on the “Comment” button below

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First Vision Accounts 2

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts by mormonmisc on May 31st, 2007

FirstVision2.jpgFirst Vision Accounts 2

I continued the subject from last week, specifically assessing the argument that Joseph Smith changed his story of the First Vision to fit his developing view of the Godhead.This argument claims that in 1832, the year of the first written account, Joseph Smith believed that there is only one person who is God, who manifests himself as the Father at times, and as the Son at other times. Jesus is thus, the Father and the Son, and so according to his 1832 theology, there is only one Divine person, not two. This argument insists that his theology evolved to a belief in two Divine beings.As a result, subsequent accounts of his First Vision fit this new view of God and nine of the other ten accounts, from 1832-1844 declare the appearance of two persons.I presented and discussed several relevant sources dating to 1830-1832 which have been overlooked by those who promote this view. These sources support the position that, prior to 1832, Joseph Smith believed that God has appeared on occasion, that He appears to introduce his Son and that Jesus has a Father who is a separate, distinct personage, concepts consistent with that found in his 1838 account, the one printed in the Pearl of Great Price.Several listeners joined in the discussion, while others took the discussion down another path.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: www.mormonmiscellaneous.com Podcast address: www.mormonmisc.podbean.com

 

Talk Show Blog: www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 27 May 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to www.k-talk.com Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world.

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First Vision Accounts 1

Posted in Uncategorized, Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts by mormonmisc on May 24th, 2007

FirstVision.jpgFirst Vision Accounts

In this talk show I discuss the early accounts of Joseph Smith’s First Vision - those recorded during his lifetime, 1830 to 1844. One was written by Joseph Smith in 1832, two others were dictated by him in 1835 and 1838, and another was written by him for publication in 1842. The other six are second hand accounts. Five of the accounts had not been published until after 1969.

I am specifically interested in the allegation that an examination of these accounts demonstrates that Joseph Smith fabricated the First Vision and changed it to fit new circumstances and his developing views about God. I approach the topic by resorting to common sense and comparing some variations in the several accounts. I discuss the publication history of several of the accounts and the remarkable fact that it seems Joseph Smith was reluctant to publish an account of his First Vision until 1842. I responded to several callers and email on the topic, and to one caller, who would not affirm or deny that he is an American, but who startlingly encourages that Mormons be wiped of the earth by any means possible.

I did not get to the main point I wanted to discuss, but will pursue it next week or the week following. I believe early documents, 1830-1832, persuasively support my argument that Joseph Smith’s theological views during those two years are consistent with his claim to have seen the Father and the Son.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: www.mormonmiscellaneous.com

Podcast address: www.mormonmisc.podbean.com Talk Show Blog: www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 20 May 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to www.k-talk.com Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world. 

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The PBS 4 Hour Special

Posted in Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts by mormonmisc on May 12th, 2007

CoverPicture.jpgThe PBS 4 Hour Special “The Mormons:” Comments & Discussion

This past week was a remarkable week for Mormonism. “The Mormons,” written and directed by Helen Whitney, was broadcast by PBS on stations all over America on Monday 30 April and Tuesday 1 May. As would be expected, opinions regarding this portrait of Mormonism are widely varied. Forums on pbs.org/mormons and newsweek.washingtonpost.com/ and lds.org have received thousands of comments and responses. “The Mormons” can be viewed at the pbs.org/mormons site. Also, this site includes complete transcripts of 13 of the many interviewed for the film, along with additional comments and discussion of Mormon history. Prompted by the broadcasting of “The Mormons,” prominent individuals from many disciplines have expressed their perspective of Mormonism from their encounter with its members, history, faith and practice.By phone and email, listeners participated in discussion of this significant event on such topics as the First Vision, Mountain Meadows Massacre and blacks and the priesthood.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: www.mormonmiscellaneous.com Podcast address: www.mormonmisc.podbean.com

Talk Show Blog: www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 6 May 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to www.k-talk.com Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view. Your voice will be heard around the world.

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Helen Whitney, “The Mormons”

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, Mormon History, All Podcasts by mormonmisc on April 30th, 2007

WhitneyPic.jpgCoverPicture.jpg

Helen Whitney, Producer of the PBS Film: “The Mormons”

I interviewed Helen Whitney, regarding her research, interviews, writing and production of the 4 hour PBS documentary, “The Mormons,” which will air on PBS channels on 30 April and 1 May 2007. She has won a number of awards for her previous movies. We discussed a number of points regarding the movie’s contents and Helen’s experiences in her research and interviews.Also included is a clip from her presentation at a Sunstone meeting in San Francisco two weeks ago.During the last 30 minutes, several callers asked questions and made comments.Helen has spent three years making this movie/documentary during which she conducted more than 1000 interviews, including Mormons and non-Mormons on a wide range of topics, and from various perspectives. She received full cooperation from the Church, interviewing several General Authorities. I was sent 2 DVD’s of the documentary to preview before my interview with Helen. Those who believe that Mormonism is 100% perfect and that nothing negative should ever be said by anybody about anybody or anything in Mormonism, or that an honest person could ever doubt Mormon claims may well dislike the movie. On the other hand, those who deny that there is any good to be said about Mormonism’s history, doctrine, claims and leaders, and that an intelligent honest person could not be a believing Mormon, may also dislike the movie. I have already read harsh comments on the movie from several subscribing approximately to each of these perspectives. I will be interested to hear the opinions expressed after the movie has been viewed.

I am an active believing Mormon, but I take seriously Joseph Smith’s many denials that neither he, nor the doctrine, nor Church are perfect. From this perspective I enjoyed the movie immensely. Helen’s work far exceeded my expectations. She has woven together impressive visuals and music with clips from numerous interviews, including many well-studied individuals, who spoke to both sides of a number of controversial Mormon topics and events. To me, she has dealt with her subject in a kind and respectful manner, but not uncritical. While watching Helen’s documentary, I frequently found myself feeling proud to be a Mormon.

With Mormonism caught from the beginning in a whirlwind of controversy, it is only to be expected that any documentary, no matter how well done, will generate new controversy.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: mormonmiscellaneous.com

Podcast address: mormonmisc.podbean.com

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 29 April 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year. To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to www.k-talk.com Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.  

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Polygamy: Some Statistics and Some Speculations

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, Joseph Smith, Polygamy, All Podcasts by mormonmisc on April 25th, 2007

Polygamy: Some Statistics and Some Speculations

Because of the inherent difficulties in drawing conclusions from certain types of sources, answers which have been given for some significant questions on early Mormon polygamy are based more on speculation than on demonstrable fact.

I discuss the treacherous nature of newspapers and testimony, especially reminiscences. Several well-known factors are responsible:

As we have all experienced, two eyewitnesses often differ in the details of an event.

Precise memory is fleeting with the passage of time.

On sensitive or controversial topics all are affected by their bias.

Some are blinded such by their bias that they filter out all facts which do not fit. They thus, intentionally or unintentionally, relate what they wish had happened rather than what actually happened.

I raise five questions regarding Joseph Smith, which many insist they can answer with certainty. I point out that the slim and ambiguous nature of the historical sources from Joseph Smith and his plural wives renders responsible students incapable of answering these questions without resorting to various degrees of speculation.  

 

 

1. What was his reasoning and motivation in teaching and practicing polygamy?

2. What was the nature of his plural marriages? Were they all sexual, were they all non-sexual or were some sexual and others not?

3. What was the nature of his polyandrous marriages - marriage to women who were already married?

4. Were any of his plural marriages for eternity only?

5. What men were eligible for plural marriages? What women?

I proceed to present my gathering of statistics from several important historical studies and provide a few of my own speculations on these 5 questions for which I find support from these statistics.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: www.mormonmiscellaneous.com  

 

Podcast address: www.mormonmisc.podbean.com       

This is the 22 April 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year.To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to www.k-talk.com Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited by phone or email, regardless of your point of view.

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Anti-Mormon Vs Mormon

Posted in Mormon Doctrine, New Testament, Joseph Smith by mormonmisc on April 17th, 2007

Anti-Mormon verses Mormon

My guest was Shawn McCraney. He is an ex-Mormon who hosts a weekly anti-Mormon TV show which airs in Salt Lake City, Utah and Boise, Idaho. The fact that Shawn is an aggressive anti-Mormon, and I, Van Hale, am a believing, participating Mormon, resulted in a lively and confrontational dialogue. Interest was high and many attempted to participate by phone and email - more than I was able to include in the two hour discussion. Those who enjoy this type of religious wrangling will not want to miss this.

Because of the nature of this discussion, I fear that I may not be able to provide an appropriate summary, so I have decided not to attempt to it.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: www.mormonmiscellaneous.com Podcast address: www.mormonmisc.podbean.com

This is the 15 April 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to www.k-talk.com Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

 

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