Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show

Which Bible?

The question, Which Bible should we read? is a question many have never considered - many who insist that the Bible is God’s complete, final and infallible word. The fact is that a consensus has never been reached even among mainstream Christianity as to which of the many, many Bibles of Christianity today and throughout Christian history is THE Bible. The history of the Bible is very complex.

The following is but a very small list of aspects related to its history: Scrolls, manuscripts, texts, codex, collections, councils, creeds, disputed books, apocrypha, pseudepigrapha, canonization, translations, Septuagint, Law/Prophets/Writings, Samitaritan Penteuch, Latin Vulgate, Masoretic text, Textus Receptus, Marcion, Jerome, Wycliffe, Tyndale, Luther, theological motivations, Dead Sea Scrolls, Nag Hammadi, lost scripture, ancient translations, modern translations, textual criticism.

I briefly discuss a number of topics from this list and give some of my personal reflections and conclusions drawn from many years of personal interest in the question, Which Bible?

Callers and Email

Discussion of:

Joseph Smith’s last Conference sermon: reports of the sermon, compiling, editing and preparation for publication

Literal interpretation of Genesis

Brigham Young’s view of the Genesis account of creation

Adam God Theory

Evolution

Jehovah in the Old Testament

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 20 January 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Death of Joseph Smith Miscellaneous Topics

Comments on the new LDS Church Almanac.

Accusation and response that the Church leaders are only interested in their callings in the Church for personal financial gain.

Allegations, prompted by Mitt Romney’s candidacy for President of the U.S., that he and other Mormons are not Christians, and that his religious beliefs should disqualify him for public office.

Brief article on “The Wrong Jesus and The Wrong Satan” by Bill Forrest.

Discussion with a caller about details of the death of Joseph and Hyrum. I read what purports to be the coroner’s report of June 28, 1844.

Discussion with a caller on Noah’s ark and the question of the historicity of all Biblical detail.

This is the 6 Januray 2008 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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LDS Church Political Policy

I discuss the Christmas card allegedly sent by Mitt Romney to Republicans in North Carolina which purports to have been financed by the LDS Temple in Boston.A frequent caller attacked Mitt Romney; claimed Brigham Young did not believe in the Constitution; that he came to Utah to escape the U. S.; and that he declared that he did not believe in the Constitution. I responded to each of these points.I read a current statement of the Church’s neutrality on political elections and partisan politics and freedom of LDS, including those holding political office, to vote their conscience.Discussion with a caller on the interpretation of portions of scripture and how the interpretation one may be relevant to the interpretations of others.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 30 December 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Strange Elements of the Old Testament

I comment on the Ensign article on Joseph Smith’s journals, the Joseph Smith Papers project and the new Priesthood / Relief Society manual for 2008.I received an email asking a question about God sending lying spirits to the prophets to deceive the king. In addressing this issue, I briefly comment on several approaches to the Old Testament.

1. Rejection of the Old Testament by many early Christians.

2. Modern approach of a majority of Christians who ignore all but a few selected passages and stories from the Old Testament.

3. Another approach is that the Old Testament is a collection of ancient religious writings but not the inspired word of God.

Acknowledging the strangeness of the Old Testament is essential to understanding it.

1 Kings 21

There are a number of passages which present seemingly strange Divine characteristics. I list a few:

1 Kings 22:9-23 (causes prophets to lie);

Ezekiel 14:9 (deceives prophets);

Amos 3:6 (the cause of evil in a city);

Ezekiel 20:25-26, 31 (gave laws and judgments which were not good, including child sacrifice);

Hosea 9:15-16 (hates and curses);

Deu 20:10-11, Lev 25:44 (commands and condones slavery);

1 Sa 16:14, 18:10 (sends evil spirits to influence men);

Ex 32:14; Deu 28:68; Am 7:3, 6; Jonah 3:9, 10; Jer 26:13; 2 Sam 24:16 (changes his mind).

I read and commented on Numbers 5:11-30 - Procedure for determining a wife’s faithfulness. 

Callers and Email

1. A frequent caller who paints Mormonism in the blackest fashion. He insists that the only interest of the General Authorities is in collecting money from its members. 

2. This caller has written a novel which incorporates much of this author’s personal doctrinal views.

3. A frequent caller strongly criticized my view of the Old Testament.

4. A frequent caller discusses the question of whether God would deceive the prophets and questioning my doubting of the literalness of parts of the Old Testament.

5. A frequent caller condemns me for not believing the flood account literally, but insists that it is appropriate for him to discard to refuse a literal interpretation of the Genesis account of creation.

6. This caller was applying some wording from the book of Revelation to current events in America’s southern states.  

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 23 December 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Development of Mormon Thought

on the Holy Ghost

I trace the development of Mormon thought, from 1829 to the present, on the Holy Ghost. I pursue such questions as:

Is the Holy Ghost a personage?

What is the future of the Holy Ghost?

Was Joseph Smith the Holy Ghost?

Why did the current LDS view of the Holy Ghost take so long to develop?

Regarding the Holy Ghost, I discuss the Book of Mormon and other early sources, specifically Lecture Five in a series of lectures given in 1834, and Joseph Smith’s teachings during the last four years of his life in Nauvoo.

Participants by Phone and Email

1. I read and responded to an email which asserts that the Bible teaches there is one God expressed in three persons. I read several Biblical passages which draw a clear distinction between God and Jesus and others which refer to the existence of a number of gods.
2. A caller addressed himself to this topic and we further discussed the question of the deity of Jesus as related to the New Testament.
3. A caller contributed several views regarding the spirit of man and the workings of the Holy Ghost.
4. Further discussion with a caller regarding the early LDS views (1830s) of the Father as a spirit in contrast to Joseph Smith’s teaching in Nauvoo (1841-1844) that the Father has resurrected body of flesh and bones like that of Jesus.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 2 December 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Discussion of God With

Martin Tanner

Discussion with my guest Martin Tanner on the following topics:

Trinity

Book of Mormon doctrine

Early Mormon views of God

Diversity and development of concepts of God within Mormonism.

Questions by Email and Phone

What about monotheism in Isaiah and the trinitarianism or tritheism of the Book of Mormon at the same time?

What about God and gender?

Brigham Young’s view of Adam as God vs Evolution vs accounts of creation in Genesis, Moses, Abraham.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 11 November 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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I considered this question from notes I prepared two years ago for a formal debate on the topic with a Calvinist minister. My approach is more as a discussion than a debate due to the fact that four issues must be resolved before we could properly debate the question, “Is the God of Mormonism the God of the Bible?” They are:

1. Which Bible?

2. What is the Biblical concept of Deity?

3. What is the Mormon concept of Deity?

4. Are we referring to the identity of God or to divergent views of God’s attributes and actions?

Callers and Email:

1. The reasoning behind non-LDS Christian arguments that Mormons are not Christians; divergent concepts of salvation.

2. A caller and I disagreed on two main points: That the belief that Jesus and Satan are brothers demeans Jesus; and that the belief that Jesus created Satan out of nothing, flawed such that Jesus knew Satan would fall and become the author of evil, makes Jesus the creator, or the one responsible for all evil. Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 11 November 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

Listen Now:

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God as a Close Personal Father

For me personally, one of the most powerful concepts taught by Joseph Smith concerns the relationship between God and man - the concept resulting in the Primary song, “I am a child of God.”

For me personally, one of the most powerful concepts taught by Joseph Smith concerns the relationship between God and man - the concept resulting in the Primary song, “I am a child of God.”

Jesus encountered a Jewish society wherein the current views of God, the result of several centuries of evolution, placed a giant gulf between God and man. To first century Jews, God was transcendent. In theology this term refers to the degree of difference between God and the physical world and mankind. The higher the concept of transcendence, the greater the gulf between God and man. Many have, and do, believe God’s transcendence is such that, to man, God is beyond all comprehension; completely unknowable; that he is “wholly other;” he is the Creator, and we are the creation.

Jesus eradicated this gulf by declaring a close relationship between God and man unheard of in ancient Israel. Jesus spoke of God as even more anthropomorphic than that found in the most ancient Israelite belief before the several centuries just preceding the Chrisitan era when the concept of a transcendent God developed.

During his ministry Jesus introduced God as his personal Father, and the personal Father of his disciples. His view was not just that God is our personal Father, but that he is our close personal Father to be addressed with a term no Jew would have considered using for God.

Along the way, the early Christian church discarded Jesus’ view and restored the concept of transcendence, even to what may well be the ultimate degree. During Joseph Smith’s efforts to restore primitive Christianity, he re-introduced, with great clarity, the concept taught by Jesus, including a new dimension.

The research of highly respected modern non-Mormon New Testament scholars, and modern translations of the New Testament have provided considerable insight into Jesus’ unique view of man’s relationship to God. I discuss the research published about 50 years ago which uncovered this lost concept of Jesus and startled many modern Christian scholars. I also present a number of striking sources including a number of modern renderings of relevant New Testament passages from some of the modern translations.

Creator / creation relationship between man and God.

Father / son relationship between man and God.

Potential to transcend the position of a creation to be a son with the potential to become like our Father - God.

Jesus’s use of the Aramaic word “Abba” for God, his Father and our Father.

Anthropomorphic concept of God.

Callers and Email:

Is not Book of Mormon theology trinitarian; discussion of different interpretations of the trinity and several Book of Mormon passages.

This caller is moved more by the idea of our relationship to God as a Father than as God as a Creator, like the relationship of a painter to his painting.

More on the theology of God in the Book of Mormon.

How is Christ the Creator.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS

Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/

Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/

Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog

This is the 21 October 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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Research Notes

I have a large collection of miscellaneous quotations, sources, references and notes which I have collected on a variety of subjects while involved in specific research projects. From time to time, I bring some of these to my talk show. In this one I presented the following six:

1. An allegation that Mormons murdered Lilburn Boggs, ex-Governor of Missouri, while he was on his way to California.

2. Peter H. Burnett, who was one of Joseph Smith’s attorneys and the first governor of California, wrote his impression of Joseph Smith.

3. John Taylor on truth and science. He taught that an appropriate pursuit of truth by Mormons is to set aside preconceived notions and bias and to search for truth from all possible sources, including the sciences.

4. Orson Pratt’s 1846 sermon, found in a journal entry of Norton Jacob, comments on the dating of creation.

5. Brigham Young speaks of his and Joseph Smith’s views on the resurrection as matters of individual belief. He endorsed individual speculation and belief, but not the assertion that this is the belief of the Church.

6. 21 January 1861 Wilford Woodruff’s synopsis of  Brigham Young’s sermon in which he speculates on the stature, in the resurrection, of those who died in infancy.

Callers and email:

All Mormons are liars, arrogant and do not believe in the Constitution and should not be protected by the first amendment.

Follow up from my discussion with Blake Ostler. Is there an ultimate head God, or is there an infinite order of Gods one above another?

Email from an evangelical Christian denouncing me and Mormonism.

Through the power of God, did the sun stand still for Joshua to allow him time to complete his attack?

Speculation regarding details of the resurrection.

Manifesto, revelation to John Taylor, revelation extending priesthood to the blacks, one mighty and strong.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 9 September 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

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History With an

LDS Historian

I was very pleased to have Ronald Barney as my guest. He is a professional historian who has been employed in the LDS Historical Department for the past 30 years. He has published widely on Mormon topics including an award winning book, The Mormon Vanguard Brigade of 1847: Norton Jacob’s Record. He is also working on the extensive multi-volume work, the Joseph Smith Papers Project.

Topics of Discussion

Joseph Smith Papers Project - scope, problems and projected publication.

Udney Hay Jacobs - author of “The Peace Maker,” an essay on marriage, including the idea that the Old Testament form of marriage, including plural marriage, should be reinstated. It was published at Nauvoo by the Times and Seasons press before he joined the LDS Church. This has been the subject of some controversy as to its author. It has been claimed that Joseph Smith authored this or collaborated in the content.

Norton Jacobs, son of Udney, joined the LDS Church. He kept a fine journal. Ron has edited this diary, adding much by way of footnotes. It is a very fine publication covering part of the Nauvoo period and the first company of Saints to travel to Salt Lake Valley in 1847.

Personal Writings of Joseph Smith - letters, diaries articles and the Liberty Jail letter.

From Callers and Email

Where was the Church organized, Fayette or Manchester?

What is the Kirtland Revelations Book?

The Joseph Smith translation of the Bible.

The DVD publication by the Church of over 400,000 pages of documents from its manuscript collection, including the entire Joseph Smith collection.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 9 September 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

Listen Now:

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Sunstone: Interview with Dan Wotherspoon

My guest was Dan Wotherspoon, executive director and editor of Sunstone Magazine, with a doctorate in theology and philosopy of religion. We discussed the upcoming Sunstone Symposium, including some of the 95 sessions, the mission and future of Sunstone and a number of topics raised by callers.

Changes in Sunstone announced with John Dehlin as the new executive director, taking over fundraising and the website.

28th Salt Lake Symposium 8-11 August 2007 - Some sessions

Mountain Meadows Massacre and the Oath of Vengeance Mitt Romney papers and panel discussion Mormon splinter groups Grant McMurray former prophet/president of the Community of Christ Church (formerly the RLDS Church) Helen Whitney, producer of the PBS documentary “The Mormons” is presenting at a special session Sunstone Mission: Open Forum of Thought,  “Faith Seeking Understanding.”

Sunstone finances.

Audio files of the 2007 Symposium will be available in mp3 format on sunstoneonline.com within about 2 weeks after the Symposium.

Comments on the future impressive additions and development of the website.

Multiple sides of Mormon issues are welcomed at Sunstone.

Topics Raised by Callers:

Mitt Romney’s candidacy What is Dialogue Journal Joseph Smith translation of the Bible King James Translations and other versions What is the Official Church position on Sunstone? What about those born into bad circumstances? The tribe of Judah Is there policy against BYU professors participating at Sunstone? Vision of the redemption of the dead D&C 138:50-51 on resurrection. A criticism that those at Sunstone prefer the past prophets and authorities over the current Prophet.

Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS Official website: http://www.mormonmiscellaneous.com/ Podcast address: http://www.mormonmisc.podbean.com/ Talk Show Blog: mormonmiscellaneous.com/radioprogramblog This is the 29 July 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 28th year.

To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to http://www.k-talk.com/ Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST.

If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.

Your voice will be heard around the world.

Click to visit my eStore Catalog of Digital Articles related to some of my Podcast Episodes

To make a comment, click on “Comment” below.

Listen Now:

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