Anti-Mormon Vs Mormon
Posted in Anti-Mormon verses Mormon
My guest was Shawn McCraney. He is an ex-Mormon who hosts a weekly anti-Mormon TV show which airs in Salt Lake City, Utah and Boise, Idaho. The fact that Shawn is an aggressive anti-Mormon, and I, Van Hale, am a believing, participating Mormon, resulted in a lively and confrontational dialogue. Interest was high and many attempted to participate by phone and email - more than I was able to include in the two hour discussion. Those who enjoy this type of religious wrangling will not want to miss this.
Because of the nature of this discussion, I fear that I may not be able to provide an appropriate summary, so I have decided not to attempt to it.
Talk Show host: Van Hale, LDS
Official website: www.mormonmiscellaneous.com Podcast address: www.mormonmisc.podbean.com
This is the 15 April 2007 episode of the Mormon Miscellaneous Worldwide Talk Show, now in its 27th year.
To listen to future Talk Shows live, go to www.k-talk.com Sunday evenings 5:00 - 7:00 pm MST. If you have a question or comment, your participation is invited, regardless of your point of view.
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Bottom line on the Mormon issue is that, officially speaking, the LDS Church is a polytheistic religion while most, if not all, mainstream Western religions are decidedly monotheistic religions. This overiding difference will forever keep the Mormon Church a seperate entity when it comes to Bible believing religions.
Van replies:
First, I am not aware that Bob Aarness is authorized to speak officially for the LDS Church, and “polytheistic” has never been used by LDS authorities to define the LDS view of God.
Further, most mainstream Western religions are trinitarian; that is, they are not monotheistic. “Trinitarian” comes from the Latin “trinitas” which means three and cannot be used in any way to define true monotheism. To say that the one God is three persons is not monotheism. To say that there is one lone being, essence, power or person who stands alone as God is monotheism. This is the view of modern Judaism, which declares trinitarianism as a heresy because it is not monotheism. Jews, religiously, are monotheists; Christian trinitarians are not.
And finally, widespread commentary by non-LDS scholars explains that the view of God in ancient Israel, and found in many Biblical passages, is not monotheistic. Rather, the God of Israel, as found in Psalms 82 and a number of other passages, stands at the Head of a “heavenly council of gods.” He is the “God of gods,” the “most high God,” the “head of the gods,” which is not monotheism. And nowhere in the Bible is there any statement that there is one God manifest in three persons. So, monotheism, mainstream Western religion and trinitarianism all diverge from views of God found in the Bible.
Christianity is easily monotheistic. It is one God manifesting Himself in three personas (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). I’ve never understood why it is that some people have such a hard time understanding that God is an omnipotent, eternal being who is not limited to any form of manifestation. He has chosen the above three. He is ONE God!
God bless!
Good debate. Shawn made up for his ignorance with aggression. Whenever you point out to an anti-Mormon their blatant double standard they will always run back to the, “LOOK, YOUR ATTACKING THE BIBLE!!” deflection.
Typically Mormon,Van refuses to be even slightly honest about this situation. He won’t even acknowlodge that the single most widely difference between mainstream Christianity and Mormonism is the absolute clear fact that mainstream Christianity believes in ONE God Almighty and their church teaches that God Almighty is only one of billions and billions and billions and billions and billions and billions and billions and billions and billions and billions of God Almighties existing in the universe. And that’s the BOTTOM LINE. Not ONCE did or does he even concede this fact. SHAME ON YOU, VAN, try to be honest at least one time in your life, will ya?!!!!!
Bob Aarness is speaking without knowledge. I have discussed LDS views on the plurality of Gods many times. I have written several articles, which have been published, addressing the fine points of this concept, its origin and development within Mormon thought. I have compared and contrasted LDS views with the widely divergent views of God found in the many controversies of early and modern segments of non-LDS Christianity.
Further, I have discussed many times the development of the concept of God within the Bible drawing from the work of many Protestant and Catholic scholars who acknowledge and comment extensively upon the concept of a plurality of gods found in a number of Biblical passages.
Van Hale
Shawn McCraney is a typical Charismatic-Pentecostal Televangelist. McCraney embraces the Calvary Chapel / Chuck Smith philosophy of ministry (was educated at their Bible College). Google this phrase: “Day of Reckoning+Chuck Smith”, find the article in Christianity Today about this whole corrupt movement.
Where does McCraney / BornAgainMormon stand ?
He believes (according to one of his own church members) that Born-Again Christians can lose their salvation. This doctrine is not taught ANYWHERE in the Bible. Certainly not a very healthy doctrine to embrace while ministering to LDS ! ! !
Shawn also embraces (he taught this on his Lord’s Word broadcast) the “It’s-OK-to-Speak-in-Tongues-as-Private-Prayer” nonsense. Tongues were revelatory (Revelatory = Direct & Immediate info from God). Tongues have ceased… The Charismatics are in the same boat as Mormons…they both believe in contemporary revelation ! ! ! Again…not a very healthy doctrine to teach while trying to win Mormons.
McCraney teaches in his book and on TV that LDS who become genuine Born-Again believers can and/or should REMAIN in the LDS religion…hence the term, “Born Again Mormon”. Noticeably contrary to II Corinthians 6.
Numerous followers of his are from existing local churches in Salt Lake City, not LDS whom Shawn has personally won to Christ. In other words, McCraney’s “church” is made up of disgruntled church hoppers, who move around from one congregation to another in and around SLC.
Once again Van refuses to concede that according to “Gospel Principals”, the official Salt lake City, mainstream L.D.S.Church published manual, 1992 version states that, “It is the first principal of the gospel to know for a certainty that …as man is, God once was, as God is, man may become.” - Van Hale, Can you say,”Extrapolate”??? Gee, Van, I guess that says it all, doesn’t it?! AND, to top it all off, when Gordon Hinkley was asked about this very subject he replied, “I don’t know that we teach that.” !!!!!!! HELLO? Knock knock, anyone home?! Can you read,”FIRST PRINCIPAL”?!! What part of “FIRST PRINCIPAL” didn’t Gordon understand?!!
After listening to this exchange between Van Hale and Shawn McCraney I find myself disgusted.
I see Shawn as angry, vindictive, obstinate, deceptive, and unable to answer specific questions about his beliefs and knowledge of the Bible. I feel sorry for those who are lead away by his destructive influence and sincerely pray that those who have been lead away eventually come to learn that God is love.
Anyone else in awe of the stupidity of this exchange? Van’s defense and offense in the debate boils down to “Well your version of Christianity is just as untenable as Mormonism and you believe it, so what’s wrong with our beliefs?” In the end Mormonism is a sad silly lie, why is the fact Biblical Christianity can look as silly sometimes a good thing for Mormonism? The end result is believers on both sides of the argument come away from that debate feeling like they won, and non-believers realize why they gave up religion to begin with. Not productive.
There is too many different christian churchs out there that have the same basic truth and it all comes from one source the bible. why is this it just doesnt add up with me its choas. If one religion can spilt into so many different opinions or (churchs) its telling me that its totally man made all the way.
Shawn is really ignorant.